(self-disclosure, i am an admin at customize and do not have skins for sale, but you probably already knew that)
3 fold.
the first is the nature of the scene. the websites are now not really in competition with each other. custo links to many others because, frankly, if someone becomes an artist cause of dev art, they're more likely to visit skinz or custo too. symbiotic. this changes if suddenly we all start selling skins. suddenly, why should site A link to B? i mean, we get $2 in commission on every sale here, so i definitely dont want you to go somewhere else. fragmentation.
the second is the process of learning. we all learned from tutorials. phong, misery, you name it. do you think that as skin teams close their doors and limit copyrights they'll keep doing free tutorials? doubtful. it only creates more competition. even now, getting help is a lot more difficult then a few years ago, ask firefly as she was debugging her winamp skin. personally, i think a members only tutorial site, would be depressing... pay three dollars to learn how to do a sphere, 5 dollars for a qcd example, 10 dollars and non-disclosure agreement for windowblinds . . .
last, and one i mentioned before, is an immidate confrontation between skin makers and skin users. suddenly we have warez sites dedicated to pirate skins, we have huge flamewars of kids ranting how they refuse to pay for what they can get for free, isolating the skinners from their userbase. . . the skinners themselves angry that they arent making as much as they feel they should, blaming others...
dunno. these are just thoughts. i hope you can give them weight from me as someone who has been in the scene quite a while now, and who is highly involved in various gpl/freedom type projects.
wow. now we are turning the whole skinning community into charging? i mean, shit ... skinning was founded to be free ...
granted the programs you have to pay for, but why the fuck should i pay for skins? Hell, places like CNET, and other respectable corporate websites talk about the free skinning community.
I don't give a shit who makes them, how they make them, why they make them, and/or how good others think the skin is. I already paid for the damn program ... I don't need to be paying for decorations.
This is such bullshit. I can't believe a small band of members has created such a theory and/or business. Another way in the form of greed ... in the feel of "I did my half ... now gimme money." Bull fucking shit. People don't create art or skins or whatever JUST for the money.
YOU are making it sound as though its just for the money.
Any site in support of your actions must be out of their mind to create a revenue out of such a thing that was meant to be free.
Ambition and greed. Thats all I see here. Another way for somebody to make money and get rich. Geez, your band of members is one of the most stuck up people I have ever met and/or seen in the skinning community.
So it's okay to pay money for the program but not to the artist who's skin you download?
You know what retard let me predict the future for you. The skin sites will begin to fall when they cant sustain the bandwidth costs. And i know your cheap ass wont donate to them and i know your cheap ass wont pay a subscription to help them survive. The suggestion to sell some skins not only helps an artist make extra money so they dont have to flip burgers but could help raise extra revenue to keep a site from being in the red. It could be a relative revenue model for a skin site to sell some skins.
I've donated money to Deviantart and i bought a subscription to skinz.org. What the fuck have you done to support the community? Fucking nothing i imagine.
You cry and cry about the demise of the skinning community and what have you done to help preserve it?
It will be leeches like you who suck their bandwidth that will help kill the skinning community. Taking, always taking . Never giving back. Until its gone. Then your stupid ass will find somewhere else to leech off of.
Your so called free community has bills to pay. Advertising revenue doesnt cut it anymore. But you dont care as long as your ass can get FREE SKINS!!
Yeh skinning started free, but guess what tard, if the sites cant pay the bandwidth bills you wont have to worry about a skinner making an extra 5 bucks here and there cuz there wont be anyplace to download.
Ambition and greed? Fuck you. Your lazy and cheap. Stuck up? less stuck up then a taker who thinks they are so deserving that they dont need to contribute.
Your the only thing i see here thats "Absolutely god damn pathetic"
oh and yeh thats not to say everyone should pay. Not everyone can afford to and thats cool. Not everyone cries like kenshin over here either. That was directed only at him. Just so we're clear on that.
Also i certainly dont want to see the skinning community turn into a pay only deal. I think a lil extra revenue cant hurt.
oh yeah i'm donning my flame-retardant suit for all the flames that will be coming. I do not want to pay for skins all the time. But theres nothing wrong with the option being there. Theres no one getting hurt becuase an artist chooses to sell their art. Its simply either you want to buy it or you dont option. But done correctly could be a nice extra source of income for high badwidth guzzlers like skin sites are. Its time to get creative.
Anyways i'm done with this this debate. If i lost my temper than it means its time to move on. Dont bother replying rkenshin. I'm not coming back here to read your dribble.
Pod i would be interested in talking to you if you want =]
i think the main problem is that no one wants to pay for anything digital. i for one like to have something material for my money. i would never pay for an mp3, but i have no problem buying a cd. i imagine that prints of wallpapers, sold at reasonable prices, would sell well. but how can you market skins? theres nothing wrong with an artist attempting to make some money off skins, it's just that very few people are willing to pay for it.
Hageshiku does haave a valid point. We as humans like to have something tangeble to take home upon purchase. Perhaps, if a skinner truly wants to make money they could make their product tangeble.
My new suggestion is. A conglomeration of various artists for pay skin suites on one cd. Cds are cheep, free to burn to for those with a burner, and reletively low cost to ship.
Putting the suites on cd would give a potential buyer something to hold physically.
The profits could be shared amongst the skinners.
Hell it could even work as an opt in thing for skinners on one of the free sites. That way The free site could recoup some bandwidth costs too.
I really don't think it's a question of digital vs physical. Programs are digital beasts, after all, and we do pay for them.
I see it more as a question of people being used or not to pay for something. With Napster most of us got the (wrong!) impression that MP3's should be free - however we would be more than willing to pay for the same content (music) on a commercial cd. It's just a question of how we perceive things. Change the perception and paying for MP3's will be just as natural as paying for the same music on a CD.
Jorge Coelho NextSTART 2.80 - A user interface you can actually use! http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies IRC Chat: #winstep on AustNet
skins = confuscious say: never post bad temper and pissyness at 2:30am after having only 3 hours of sleep the prior night (i got pissed off at lots of things last night besides just that, mostly my ISP)
it think the last post i had got out of hand .... and in all my other posts, i support your selling the skins just under the circumstances that it should be outside the free skin community.
anyways, before i say anymore .... i need to go shower and go to class. (college finals SUCK) :-P
Exactly, the grand majority of the populace isnt used to having to pay for anything they can download. Mp3,software, etc. People buy music in stores. People buy Software in stores. People Pirate music on the net. People Pirate software on the net.
Its just this odd quirk that people dont want to pay for that which can be downloaded.
So give it to 'em on a cd shipped to theyre dorestep and they will be more likely to pay.
Changing the perception isnt an option. We aint that famous. heh
Well i second that sentiment rkenshin. =]. No more late night posts for this boy.
personally i'm not going to burn 100 CDs a month. just dont have the time, nor do i want to mail them, do labels etc.
I'll stick to digital means ofdelivery.
But some sites will embrace what we have now decided to do and some wont. That's life. The pay for skins site would be off community "lawn" and on our own site with an affiliation program set up for the sites that want to earn some extra cash and participate in the program. Maybe this will be good maybe it wont. Guess we'll find out. Time will tell. In the meanwhile we'll still produce skins for hire for companies like TDK, Microsoft and a others. We havea deal in the works that i think will truly make people go wow when they find out who it's for. Wish us luck. Its a sweet company who contacted us.
tracker music was demos. sure, there's trackers alive right now, making new projects, using even related programs (necros switched to buzz2, for instance) that might still be considered trackers.
but the music isnt tracker. the community and purpose arent there.
it's still digital art, it's still pretty, talented, but it's no longer skinning.
Well good luck for sure. Wasnt nockin the 'ol pay for skins site. I dont knock one of my suggestions for another..heh. Just putting more ideas in the arena.
Besides. I figured the cd thing would be more of a thing for the free sites if they run into financial trouble. A pay for skins site doesn't really have to worry about it if people are paying them already:)
Here is the cd concept as applied to fre sites.
Members who want there skins on the cd opt in to the program.
Profit is devided amongst the skin authors and the site.
The site uses the profit to pay for bandwidth servers etc.
The authors use it to pay for software, mountain dew, and free up more time to skin.
Why would anyone buy a cd full of skins they can get for free?
Well just think of how many skins you can fit on a cd. A whole lot. It would sure save the time and effort of dl'in all those skins.
Hell it could even be done by section. Think about what would happen if every wallpaper artist on custo opted in to the program. Thats over 3000 walls on a cd.
And as far as the time and efort for burning. Well hell you probably arent even gonna break a sweat. Burning on a decent box would be easy. and you just mail the orders one day a week. Thats how we work all our ebay shite.
Anyway, I still think the pay skin site would be neat. Juts wanted to give the free sites and idea all for themselves. They may hate it. They may love it. Im just saying its an idea:)
One site (who's name I'm not going to mention or all hell will break loose again) did such a thing. Skinners could opt-in and the cd with skins was sold online. I don't know how well it did though. Also, the revenue went to support the site, not to the skinners.
Another idea currently being thought off at skinz is having registered (paying) members give points to skins. Members can buy additional points and whenever a skin reaches X points, the skinner receives money for it.
The skinz idea intregues me. Though im not sure i get it yet.
Hmm well in the cd idea I invisioned both sites AND skinners should be compensated heh.
hmm..maybe that wasnt an original idea on my part. Maybe i remember that site doing the cd thing way back in my unconsious mind. and partially reconstructed that memory in the form of a new idea.
I like that idea. It seems fair to all. You probably wont get a gigantic response after starting it initially. Many skinners may wait to see how well it works and whether or not they think they can recoup their subscription costs.
But thats just at first mind you. I think it has a real chance to catch on. As much as anything that has to do with money on the web does anyway.
DariusX: Sarcasm is lost on you so let me be blunt.
I was not saying that Customize.org should pay skin authors. I am pointing out the hypocricy of the position that it's okay for skin sites to profit with help from skin authors but not okay for skin authors to get their costs recouped with help from skin sites.
I've seen the numbers on these suites, they're doing quite well. And while skin CDs like the WinCustomize CD don't do as well as we'd like, they have generated a lot more revenue to help pay for the site than all the donations Trillian has gotten.
What Customize.org does with its policies are up to it. I am not suggesting that Customize.org isn't within its rights to do whatever it wants on its site.
What I am saying is that these skin suites HELP sites on customize.org and freeware apps.
So far, I've seen no one counter the evidence to that supports this. Instead I've seen baseless name calling and emotional, irrational arguments.
Talking theoretics is fine to a point. The practical reality is that all the evidence so far shows that these suites are benefiting everyone. And no one has pointed any evidence to the contrary.
doodle fathom Jake (iST) joachim kig kinwashi lowen morph precurser roman supa vendicator wreckk xcaponius
Every one of those artists above has made money working with me, one time or another. Go ahead and tell them how they have no respect in this community. Tell them: "again, you're either an artist, or a blue collar corporate kid. respect or money. pick one."
oh and here’s some skinners who i've spoken to within the last 4 months who have expressed interest in working with my company...
theres again working with others for the sake of prestige and joy of skinning.....
ask them all another question: would they permanently make skins and make money for it? would they make a members only section on their sitè? WOULD THEY BECOME CORPORATE WHORES? go ahead, ask em
FrogBoy - do us a favor and shut the hell up. Your whining and complaining in every thread is pissing everyone off.
We have a subtle conversation going on in here that is being talked through. We don't need YOU calling us "kids" when you are the one acting like one. The only people calling each other names was Skins and I ... and we already talked over another means of communication and worked things out. So please ... shut your damn mouth.
On a second note, I'd have to agree with AdamTT. I'm almost positive those skinners / digital artists would not want to permantly make skins and make money for it. I think a lot of the them enjoy skinning and creating digital art for fun. It's like a "side hobby". Much like "fishing". You don't charge the fish money for catching them, do you? Ok, so bad analogy.
Granted that they probably would do a piece or two for the cash ... hell, I would (especially since I am dead broke right now and could use the money), but I don't think they would want to do that for a living. Most of those guys are young at age (20-25) and their careers (in whatever they are doing, and I hope its art) are just starting.
I see all these people's websites saying they are offering "Freelance Design Work" ... and it sounds to me like you are hiring them to do that, but only on a temporary basis. I myself, do that as well. But like anyone else who does Freelancing knows that you can't only do THAT. It doesn't support you and your life (unless your some kind of miracle man who gets like 300 clients a year).
I barely post anything on Custo, and theres a valid reason for that (only screenshots) ... one of which I don't want to mention. Lots of my artwork goes onto bkaro.net. That being said, I'm not going to sell it. I view it as "my artwork" ... and if anyone likes it, they can use it for display or whatever they want, as long as they agree to my terms (not reproducing, claiming for their own, etc).
Ok ... but I need to cut this short. Class is going on. Taking a test. Ack. Sometimes I hate Quark
...everybody bow down before FrogBoy ... he is a skinning "god" .... or at least he makes himself out to be one.
Sure as damn well sounds like it at least.
Anyways, now that my test is over ... lemme finish up.
Umm...oh yea ... bkaro. In any case, that is that.
The CD idea isn't actually all bad. But, who says you have to put every single skin on the CD . I mean, really, I wouldn't want a CD full of utter shit. I mean, not to say people make crap ... because art comes in different forms. But, I'm saying that I don't need all those skins that are here on the site. I'd use, let's say ... maybe, the top 25% or top 50%.
Who knows, the CD idea ain't a bad idea ... but still.
After talking to skins, I see his point and it is avid. But, I guess I just still remain the same. Keep the "business" outside of here. If you want to advertise, then you need to pay for the advertisment, just like every other "business" does in this world.
I don't disagree with you charging for your skins. Hell, its a lot of work and sometimes that much work needs to be paid for. But, yea, it doesn't give anyone the right to go posting on sites and advertising for free just because they think they "deserve it" and the "skinning community owes me because I have done sooo much for all these site". Thats very egotistical of people to say. I could care less if your the President of the US and said "well, I saved the planet". So? Good for you. Your a human being. You don't go on a higher pedistle than anyone else. (And trust me skinsfact, I am not pointing my finger at you).
But, some of the others are sounding like that.
Who knows ... I dunno ... I'm just another digital artist in this world, just like everyone else. Nobody is better than each other. I thought this world was supposed to be "creation of equality". So far, it comes to seem like an aristocracy going on.
Bah, whatever.
Peace. .rkenshin.
Blame me, it's all my fault .... what did I do again?
Would they "would they permanently make skins and make money for it? would they make a members only section on their sitè? WOULD THEY BECOME CORPORATE WHORES? "
LOL. ummm YEH!
At least 5 of them work for me on a full time basis, most of the others work doing digital art and web graphics for a career. A few are in school and cant do it full time otherwise they would. They TOLD me. So stop acting like you know what the score is Adam. Unless you start your own business you'll be the same "Corporate Whore" your asking about. Whether your flipping burgers or selling stocks you will work for a corporation or you will incorporate your own business. So stop with the "down with corporations!" kiddy comments. Mmmmmkay?
hmm i wonder what would happen if i posted a screenshot of my images from the cd i did for digitalvision...one image as a wall two in a window or photoshop. heey even this text i typed feels like a damn commercial of my work. i also wonder what would happen if bill gates himself created an account and posted screenshots of windows xp luna. you guys would prolly flame him and me. im with miriku on this one. screenshots with commercial skins should be posted by the end user and not the creator cause in the end if a creator posts it then it logically becomes an attempt to spread and inform ppl about their products even if the creator isnt aware of that. free commercial time on air simply put.
I guess it's this ... the owners / admins need to decide what is best for the public of their site. Sooooo ... yea.
And sorry to take that out on you FrogBoy, but I'm tired of this topic since the reasonable answer has already been found ... reguardless of what you think and you think there hasn't been any "logical points" when there has been. I'm sure the admins / owners will take them into consideration.
I do not recall anyone said it was wrong for skin authors to help recoup costs with the help of the skins sites.
If you actually take your "crusader for pay skinners rights" goggles off for a second and re read these threads, almost everyone who has disagreed with you has also said they have no problem with skin authors selling their work.
The point is. I still believe skin authors and skin sites owe each other equally, and therefore owe each other nothing.
So yes, the sites helping the authors recoup costs is a grand and noble thing. However to advertise on a skin site in order to recoup said cost, It would have been at least polite to ask "Hey, is it ok with you guys if i post this screeny with a link back to where people can buy the rest? We're trying to make money off what we love and could really use your support."
But did that happen? No. Im not saying it was pixelstudio being arogent and feeling that they were owed something that started this. Not at all. I am however saying that that seems to be the prevailing attitude comming from you and the Wincusto camp.
I feel that it is already a perfectly 50/50 symbiotic relationship. And so neither side owes the other a thing.
By the way, I read the counter thread over at WinCusto. Some very interesting points made. However the attitude seems to be, that if a disagrenment is discussed there, its an intelectual debate. If its discussed here, its a whiny bitch fest. I would like to aim the following comment toward that attitude(not toward anyone in specific).
Wincusto is not the headquarters for the worlds intellegencia. Not all the mature, fairly intellegent people or skinners hang out there. So this attitude of "We are so mature and all you custo users are poor little teenagers who just want free beer" is realy rather sad.
And to thiose who think we are all whiny kids well..
I personally an 22 y/o with a wife and 2 beautiful children. I work for a living, own my own house, and understand the value of a dollar.
I do not expect everything to be free. Nor so I want it all to be free. I just have my beliefs that i have re stated in these threads again and again.
I also enjoy a good intelectual debate. And I thought thats what we are having. Sure you and i have both tossed a few less than intelectual jibes around the board but hey, that happens in any debate where the answers arent written by a speechwriter for you.
And for the final time. I dont hate anybody. I dont wish ill upon anybody. Actually i pretty much like everyone involved in this little frey. I am just going to dissagree with everyone at one point or another.
I dont hop on bandwagons. I have my own transportation:)
-DariusX-
P.S. For the custo gang that hasnt read the Wincusto thread, I suggest you do so. It will make you laugh and cry. Its the next Big Movie!! j/k It is an interesting thread.
Please by all means, do commissioned skins for corporations, in fact i encourage it, i think its a great way to get noterity and money for doing something you like to do. More power to you, you guys do some awesome stuff (i really like the TDK skin for WMP7). My problem is turning the skinning community into a consumer market, first things first, (and yes this is speculation) i don't think that there is a viable market out there, the majority of the people we deal with and know neither have a large amount of cash, nor are willing to shell it out, most of them are rather young as well (causing the previous two).
I don't want us to turn into a corporate playground (which i don't see happening any time soon because as far as i can see none of the site admins really want to see this happen), but i do recognize the artists right to make money. The question is method. I don't like tyring to turn fan support into pay support. What i -would- like to see (and would like to work towards) is making the skinning community more well known, and interfacing with the corporate world in a manner by which -we- as a community are not harmed.
oh...not only do you have kids ... but you offer ELF PORN! :-P hehehe j/k
anyways ... gotta love those wincustomize people ... its the "hi, we are high and mighty and better than everyone else." ... i 'd have to agree with what you said about that Darius
like miri said, this is just going over and over. my view: pixtudios skins are great, and i have paid for them myself. note that i however PAID FOR THE ENTIRE SUITE, not just a wb skin. single skin = no. suite = yes. although, that branches off also suite+crappy = no. suite + GOOD GOD THIS IS THE GREATEST SKIN SUITE EVER! = yes. that's my view. also, i am going to order pixtudios next suite soon.
[Okay, how do I know you're wrong if you're just guessing?] [NTO GODO!1]
/me wishes that there were more people like Pod around to discuss these kinds of issues with.
You see, after 3 massive threads Pod has the key defining point here (correct me if I'm wrong):
It's not freeware vs. non-free as much as it is about turning a grass roots community into yet another commercialized consumer market for the masses complete with Harry Potter skins and Jar Jar themes. And that the concern may be that the Stardocks, Pixtudios, etc. of the world are moving things in that direction.
Is that a correct interpretation? If so, THAT would be a good new topic.
riiight. yeah, let's completely ignore the freedom issue.
riddle me this starkid: whats the user licence on those skins? what am i allowed to do with it? can i back it up? can i use it on any computer i want? if my friend wants to see it, can he? i paid for it, can i resell it when i'm done? isnt this a legal right of purchaser?
You know, miriku, the "star kid" stuff is exactly the type of thing that makes you look so infantile. Can you carry on a conversation or not?
I don't know what the license is on the pixtudio suite. I'm not involved with that. You would have to ask them, oh wait, you already chased them off with your rude behavior.
Freedom eh? Yea, freedom to other people's work you mean. I notice none of the anti-"pay" skins people have made very many skins. None. Pixtudio provided more free skins in their suite than you've submitted total.
Original post by FrogBoy ****** So far, I've seen no one counter the evidence to that supports this. Instead I've seen baseless name calling and emotional, irrational arguments. ****** End of Post
New post by FrogBoy ****** You know, miriku, the "star kid" stuff is exactly the type of thing that makes you look so infantile. ***** End of New Post.
Next Post ***** Pixtudio provided more free skins in their suite than you've submitted total. ***** End Post
Hmm ... so now we're in some sort of competition? I have a feeling you're going to reemed out here in a next few posts by some angry people. You say we're "hypocrites" ... I think somebody needs to re-think what he is saying.
nd ... Wow, and you're in business? Hmm, you're not gonna last too long with the way you attitude is.
Nuff said.
.rkenshin.
Bow down before FrogBoy ... we didn't do as many skins as Pixstudio did. Therefore, I suck.
If you knew more about me you would realize how amusing your "business" statements are. (how is it on the one hand Stardock is "Taking over" everything but somehow the people in it are "Bad" at business?). Some college old kid making business judgements of people who have successfully been in business since he was 12 years old is quite hilarious.
It isn't my fault that you aren't capable of putting forth a valid argument. Rather than spending so much of your energy trying to make lame personal attacks (which as I show above you're not exactly in a good position to do that) why not put forth a reasoned argument.
Miriku creates a topic arguing that non free skins are bad for users. I put for evidence to the contrary and the response is a bunch of irrational emotional babble from people like you. The reason why I am successful at business is that I look at the facts, not emotional claptrap like you do.
Let me put it as simply as I can for you:
The claim is that by charging for skins, Pixtudio and those like them will sqeeze out good free skins.
The fault in that reasonsing, which I provided evidence, is that 1) Pixtudio provided a bunch of free skins and 2) That the "Free" skin authors arne't evne providing as much support for the freeware apps as Pixtudio has in recent times. And if that isn't enough, the people bitching the loudest are the ones not doing anything constructive in the first place making you just sound like a leech.
noooooo...your not understanding my point there Froggy *hop hop*
Again, I repeat:
***** So far, I've seen no one counter the evidence to that supports this. Instead I've seen baseless name calling and emotional, irrational arguments. *****
Yet, your name calling, getting emotional, and giving ... well..irrational arguments.
Just because I'm some "college student" doesn't make you some god.
You make me laugh Frog ... you really do. Hell, my professor read your posts today and thought of how cocky you were. But hey, thats coming from somebody who has 3 master degrees and a few bachelors in art(s).
In any case, thats not the point.
YOU are the one putting YOURSELF on a "high and mighty table". YOU are the one essentially saying "I am better than you all. Go away".
I could care LESS how long you have been in business. But apparently, YOU don't know how to conduct it very well with others (or your consumers).
I mean, a person shouldn't own a business until they have had real world experience outside of their own egotistical mind. Everyone should work in retail. Everyone should work in a restaurant. etc. etc. This teaches people RESPECT to others and customer satisfaction.
But maybe you were "too good" for that too.
YOU are the hypocrite. I didn't mention anything in my last post about your damn site. I have said it a thousand times. Sell your skins. Have fun selling them. Kudos to you. Just keep it out of here.
Because ... reguardless of what YOU think...
WE don't owe YOU one fucking thing.
So, you keep thinking to yourself how "great" you are over everyone else. Keep on thinking how everyone is nothing and you are "it". Be my guest, see if I really care. Cause I don't. Your business, not mine.
I provided avid support to YOUR posts and responded to them with evidence from YOU. You fucked up Froggy, and now you're eating your own words.
Your much like somebody else I know ... he's the type of person who is "I'm right, you're wrong. So shutup".
Let me put it simply to YOU (and its not about your Pixstudio).
My claim is slightly different. Mine boils down to, make sure that Pixtudio and others like them can support themselves, and they will continue to do that which they enjoy (i.e. skin) and not have to charge for them.
Again, i would like to try and do a co-op type deal or some sort of consortium that would perhaps better allow for this to happen. That would also cut down on the Laisse Faire bullshit that so terrifies many of us.
But miriku is right on many of his points.
i'm really leery at letting this just run free, but i'm also kind of leery trying to do something aobut all of this. Thats why i want to talk to people about it. and i will. probably friday when i have some free time.
I think you are very good at convincing yourself of how right you are. I mostly read the posts now - responded to a few and was trashed in a most rude manner. I try to be objective and have come to the conclusion that many in this "debate" become emotional, irrational, arrogant and just plain rude when someone is presenting their viewpoint and it does not match their own. You are guilty of the behavior that you charge FrogBoy. Will this observation get me flamed? I'm sure it will. FrogBoy presents many valid points. He does so in a methodical and rational manner. I have not seen him resort to name calling or belittleing.
*flames bmetelsky* *flames frogboy* *flames microsoft, deviant art, skinz, neon chomsky, neverwinter nights, and the lord of the rings movie just for good measure*
this thread is dead. it's an ex thread. it has passed on. it has kicked the bucket, bought it's farm, fed the worms and joined the choirs invisible. it is now pushing up the daises, headlined fucked company and gone titsup.com. it is a late thread.
"Let me put it simply to YOU (and its not about your Pixstudio). "
I already posted here before and will say it again. Pixtudio IS OWNNED BY ALEXANDRIE AND ME AND NOBODY ELSE. We are the ones who pays the bills and we are very proud of it.
You guys here talk too much about freedom, but when people come here, they have 2 ways of thinking, your way or the wrong way.
You guys unrespect people that does not agree with you, offending, beatching, humillianting, distorcing the truth, using others people's names and hard work to try to prove your points and personal attacks.
It seams to me that some people here think they are "God" and others are sure they are.
thats so out of character for treetog....i'm sure you guys are really proud of yourselves that you got a rise out of him like that. you guys are just plain old sad.
i thought this thread was closed. btw, thanks for the info. didn't know he wasn't apart of it. =/ he's still a cocky assfuck though.=)
davad, you're quite sad to. you can't seem to solve problems on Custo so you turn you back and tail and run away from it. Hell, I don't remember anyone doing anything to you to make you want to remove your skins. Or did they?
Please .... some people in this world or so damn whiny and babies. When they don't like what they here, they get all pissed off at it and run away. Much like yourself.
Oh well.
God ... like Miriku said ... this thread is closed. Stop posting.
