I know this is totally off subject of anything that has been posted, but I want to see people's opinions on this. Do you think the US is at the peak of the war against terrorism in the Afganistan? I was watching the news this morning and they said they knew that Bin Laden is in the caves that they are bombing and that the US is going to focus 100% of it power on these caves. Do you think that this will just stop terrorism? Personally, I don't, what I want your opinion. Also, did anyone see President Bush's decision to pull out of the Anti-Ballistic Missle Treaty? What a fool...
-d crawley
09:51 am, Thursday, December 13, 2001 (7 years ago)
The purpose of that treaty as we discussed in class is that if you don't have a defense you're less likely to set an offensive attack... after 9.11 i'm all for it. someone is going to sneak it into space sometime. Like China .. they just got their first rocket into space like last year.. they have nothing to do with that treaty. I can see them doing it. I trust the government will use the power wisely.
I have a feeling they may not catch bin Laden.. if they do the troops arent gonna leave him alive. Britain won't support the U.S. if we take him back to the states and put him on trial.
.:Arznek:. with a bannana peal, a microwave, jergens, and a box of tissues...you can have a good time.
pull the abm treaty= pure genius. It makes us more of a threat and more safe. China isn't in the treaty and they can nuke us no problem. think they just put shit into space that means they could put a nuke in space
ÐûçK so many meanings and so useless. I AM GODS GIFT TO JERGINS HAND LOTION
osama bin llama hes a mean man with no plan, hes goin to get what he deserves. either killing himself or us killin him ÐûçK so many meanings and so useless. I AM GODS GIFT TO JERGINS HAND LOTION
Good call on the ABM Treaty. I think that is will make us more of a threat, but in reality, will Bush's plan work? I trust him to do what is right, but I don't know about this whole 'Star Wars' shield thing. Ahh hell, who knows. On another issue, what do you guys think about the Bush administration releasing the tape of Bin Laden taking credit for the terrorist acts committed on the US on 09.11.01? I don't think it will do anyone any good. It will just make people who lost loved ones more sad and make people who are prejudice against Afgan's more prejudice.
Ok we all know Osama is the enemy here. But what's with dissin china? Put nukes in space? WTF for? So what you people are saying is that China can't put nukes in space but the US can? what's wrong with this picture?
I Think Osama Is Already Dead, But Bush Wanna Show His New Bombs... Hey If Hes Alive They Never Gonna Catch Him Cos Hes A Tricky Psycho Who Bombs Hiself ,So They Cant Catch Him...
nothing will stop terrorism, terrorism will always be a part of life, its getting them to stop terrorizing us, and that is possible. yes we know he is in the caves but why send in U.S. Troops when the rebel forces will do it for us. We may have already killed him. And the ABM treaty was pure genuis, russia is so damned worried about us, i dont think the government will use it bomb someone else.. that would be foolish.
Crae: "As for that video, it could've been me talking, if I'd grown a beard. Oh, how convincing."
Have you read 1984? If you have, didn't that segment remind you of the 2minute hate? Where they show the "enemy" of the people for to direct their hate and anger at, while reinforcing their belief that Big Brother is right, perfect and fully righteous in all his actions.
I agree with Locke, in the way that USA is (again) trying to be the president of the world.. They think they can do whatever they want. Ok, of course what happened in NY was terrible and wrong in every possible way, but what USA is doing now to afgansthan is also wrong (imho). I mean.. The worlds most powerful country destroying the remains of one of the worlds poorest coutries..
Ok, I don't know what i would have done here.. it's quite hard, but i know that this is wrong. Violence brings more violence. If Bin laden would have had nukes, he would prolly have launched them against USA without any doubt. For once Russia has a smarter president that USA.
Oh, don't take my opinions personally..
About Bin Laden.. they'll never get him, since he will kill himself/get killed before that, but then again, even if they would get him, no punishment would be enough..
Zathrus > I've never read 1984 and I've only seen fragments of this video, but as far as media goes, it's all propaganda on both sides. The truth will only come out in the next century or so.
We could tie him down, strap on a pair of headphones and force him to listen to Boyzone CDs, changing it with Nsync every now and then, just so he doesn't become de-sensitized, for a term of 100yrs. He should be dead by then.
Totally. I will never claim to be immune to it, as its very subtle, (sometimes not, though). But I am glad that I'm able to stand aside and view it from different angles.
Ever noticed that we never see the average Afgan who actually would like the Taliban to be abolished. They (the Afgan people) have been though so much, that they didn't really have any method to appose the Taliban.
The Nothern Alliance wasn't doing too well until the US stepped in.
Before anyone thinks I'm taking sides, I'd like to make it clear that I don't believe that in this situation anyone is absolutely right. It's one great big grey area as far as I'm concerned.
By we, I mean us collectively. The human race. Somewhere along the line we got our lines crossed, conflicting agendas, short sightedness, xenaphobia... the list is endless.
I Saw Him Too... In The Kitchen From Pizza Hut... The Pizza Was Great... With Nice Little Granades And A Bit Of C4... It Blows My Mind... 12,95 DM ($ 6)...
btw, those guys in the video were all animatronics made by Disney for their new ride "Terrorist Mountain" No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low.
Whoever above said what the U.S. is doing to afganistan is wrong... If the U.S. weren't to rid afganistan of the taliban they'd do it again... You can't slap people on the back of the hand and say .. "don't do that again." It's like kids.. you don't smack their asses when they deserve punishment they end up being disobedient snobs with no respect. Actions speak louder than words.. thats how you learn not to do something like that again.
.:Arznek:. with a bannana peal, a microwave, jergens, and a box of tissues...you can have a good time.
Arznek: True true...but if killing innocent civilians is the price for fighting terrorism, then it's wrong. There HAD to be another way. Bush is itching for a fight as far as I can see. Laden's not gonna be caught alive ... ala Hitler.
Shax said, "I agree with Locke, in the way that USA is (again) trying to be the president of the world."
I might not use the term president but I would certainly use the word police force. Here is the thing that irks me the most. Everytime that something happens horrible around the world the US is one of the first ones to help out. Not only with military strength but also with humantiarn (sp?) aid. I just find it hard to beleive that the one big time (3000+ approx dead) that the US gets hit by terrorists it takes the US to GO OUT and GET support to fight. No one offers until the US asks. Kinda wrong if ya ask me.
Da1King Are you on drugs?? Or is this your naturally moronic state??
Yep. If there's an earthquake or natural disaster, who sends help first? If there's famine, who sends food? Of course I realize there is a flip side.....
No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low.
Yeah but the US wasn't always like that. There's a reason why they're hated in the middle east! Because the US likes to meddle in their affairs. I've lost count of how many times they've tried to force middle eastern countries to westernize. I remember when they were paying off the shah of Iran to westernize. What happened? It tore the country apart and started a revolution. You can't FORCE people to live a certain way!
which is one of the reasons we destroyed the taliban. at least "westernization" is mostly beneficial. living under the absolute rule of a government like the taliban does nothing but create more poverty, sickness, hunger and hate.
point taken. taliban is/was a corrupt government. but I disagree with westernization being beneficial. really it all depends on how you look at it. but again, these people have different life styles than our own.
Locke: have u ever been to the middle east ? the whole place is westernized. I dont think weternized is an accuarate terminology for it either, i thinks it should be called CIVILIZATION. and to those who say bombing afgahnistan is wrong is lost in space, the whole reason this happened was because we never showed the terrorists whos the fucking boss.
usa = bad terrorists = very bad afgan = unlucky shit hole that has been destroyed way to many times afgans people = dead, uneducated, orfaned, wounded, lost canada = peace loving try hards the media = preprogramed regulated infromation to help programe us the goverment = what tells the media what to do star wars = a good movie series untill jar jar binx typos = own rush68
(didn't try to spell anything right..) The selvation Army "terrorist victims need comfort and aid." what about the victims of usa? or the victims of aids,cancer,other problems... are we ignoring all other problems just because of this? .. *sigh* human race = screwed up ignorent fucks. and yes im one of them
I'm from the middle-east :p though it doesn't mean I hate the US ;) I been living in canada for 10 years. so being from a totally different style of living, I have thought a lot about the west and the east and how they don't seem to get a long :)
Why must the U.S. always take the majority of the blame for "meddling in the middle east". The history of the wars throughout the middle east date back long before the formation of the USA.
While I do not deny the US foreign policies with the middle east are less than stellar, the many different cultures and tribes throughout the middle east need to realize that much of the blame resides amongst themeselves for lack of peace.
Look at it this way... if you lived on the same street as a couple of rival gangs and their fighting affected your family, your friends, your home and your way of life, would you stand for it? This question has three possible answers....1. Live with it (and live in misery) 2. Move away (but the situation still exists) or 3. Fight back (and correct the situation). Anyone who dare answers anything other than #3 is either ignorant or has no sense of humanity to allow themselves and others to live in such a mess.
Yes the U.S. has made mistakes but we are not the bully on the block. We honestly want freedom for all who deserve freedom. Meaning, if you are not commiting crime, you deserve to be free. We have pushed our ideals of religion, politics and commerce and this is wrong on our part, but killing thousands in a senseless act of terrorism cannot possibly be viewed as an acceptable much less intellectual response to the wrongs commited by the U.S.
Locke...I apologize for singling you out but this is not an east against west issue. You should be a little familiar with your own middle east history which shows that many of its inhabitants can't get along amongst themselves and I am not only referring to Israel and Palestine. I don't mean to offend you. I merely wish to point out to you that the U.S. is not to blame for horrific acts that have killed thousands from 60+ different countries, quite possibly some of your own countrymen.
Knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Why did'nt the Bush Administration take heed of the numerous warnings about the terrorist attacks? sheesh, they had ample warnings and yet they they still decided not to take action to protect the lives of 3000+ civilians - there's always a reason for war, and always hidden agendas. :(
because everything in the bush agenda is justified by the "war" on terrorism.
Notice that from the very first second the bush adminstration was stressing the fact that "the war on terrorism" would not be a short or quick debical (not that bush knows what that word means).
Lord Protector Ashcroft isn't making me more assured that the US isn't just taking away more of its citizens's rights either.
I probably have an oppinion nobody will like, especially you Pod.
First of there should be racial profiling regarding airport security and other types of security, because the people that are doing the terrorism are arabs. Yes I am being prejudice, and why not? If we know the group of people causing the attacks, why don't we watch them more closely? Civil Rights are given to people by the govn't, and when national security is jeopardized, the govn't can take those rights away.
Secondly, when dealing with people that hate you no matter what, there isn't much you can do. Three generations of people hate America and the rest of the Western World. These generations will teach future generations to hate the West. But we still believe that they are good, but they aren't. They are already taught to hate the west when they are only three years old, No wonder there are suicide bombers. The truth is that most people in the Mid-East do in-fact hate Western Civilization, and there is nothing that can change their minds... So why do we keep reassuring them we are not going to war with them when in fact we are.
Those are my thoughts, I don't care if you agree, I ask only to open your mind to the bare truth.
Rush68, get a clue! You say we are bombing a 3rd world country. While our bombs have been misguided by human error far too often, it is in no way our intent to "beat up on" a poor impoverished country. If that were our intent there would be no one left in Afghanistan. Remember we are going after a few thousand people in an area the size of Texas (approx) with an overall population of 25+ million. Not even taking into account that these chickenshit terrorists at one point were hiding amongst the civilians, before they ran to their caves.
In other words....stop your belly aching that the U.S. is just beating up on innocent people. I believe it was the death of innocent people that started this in the first place. If you are all for sitting on your ass while your countrymen are murdered, fine. We Americans will not stand for it.
Feverish, I hope you are just voicing your personal feelings. While I believe you are entitled to your feelings you must realize that feelings and politics do not belong together. I am for profiling but against racial profiling. I am a red blooded American and would have no problem with someone profiling me just for being me, but If I'm black or Arab or Chinese or whatever, that does not give anyone the right to single me out.
By the way...we kept reassuring them we are not going to war with them, because we are greedy and want their oil.
Knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Wow. You peopel are goin off!!! The ABM treaty. We needed to get out now. The powers of the world are changing slowly and we had to do somethign to out ourselves in a decent position of defense. I am not saying just China. A LOT of countries are working towards upper atmosphere flight. And you don't know what they might want in the future. Things happen that we never see coming. I think we all know that too well now. As for the whole Afganistain thing. I think we had to go after him. But I don't think we should have placed an all out assault on him. Especially with him not even being a member of their govt. I always thought that this was the kind of stuff Special Forces guys were trained for. Get in, get done, get out. No war.....just one dead Osama bin Laden. No mater what happens now, we have fueled terrorism for many years now. I see no way he lives through this. He is killed by a bomb, or kills himself. We will have created a martyr, if we haven't already. Fasten your seatbelts.
so the americans would rather open themselves up by saying "We will not note your race regardless of the situation" rather than "Recently, we've had a shitload of arabs fly planes into our landmarks, killing us, we suspect they might be sending anthrax around to our civillians.. you get the idea. So we're going to keep in mind that you're an arab"
Everybodies "we can't group people by race" attitude is nice, when there's peace. When you're being bombed however, protecting your own people is more important than making life here more convenient for the countrymen of your enemies.
/me awaits the amusing "ignorant racist" comments.
the united states did what it had to do . pres. bush gave the taliban a chance to give up bin laden and they refused so we are going in to get him. and for the people who dont think what we are doing is right.(just think if this happend to you)what would you do. and that you know ware the man that planed this attack was. no matter what country they were from or in.as of now you cant tell me sence the U.S. and the brits were in afghanistan and crumbled the taliban the the afgan people are not better off(now they are free)from their bullshit laws.to me as i see it they seem happier.know i dont see what we are doing is wrong.as for the idiot that say the U.S. trys to force the way we live and religion.thats the biggest bullshit ive ever heard.we the american people are all diffrent religions.from diffrent counties so the way i see it is that people want to be in america, to live the way americans do . im glad we are finally doing something to help the world from terrorism no matter what beliefs or what country your from.to other people in the world sees only what they want .and dont see what is realy going on.the united states always step up to help other countries with money,military forces,or food .my tax dollars and every americans money gose to help other counties in the world.now this pisses me off the we never get reconized for that do we (no!!!) so to all the commies and the anti american asses the next time youre country is in need of help in any form of way (look and see who is helping you!.i bet my life on it that the americans are thier to help. THIS IS FROM A PROUD AMERICAN and ill fight for with my life .
jeezes god you have bad spelling/grammar. yes, show us your ignorance. I'll forgive you for calling me an idiot.
answer me this though, would the US have attacked, say Russia or Germany if the terrorist resided in that country? HELL FUCKING NO. Why? I'll let YOU figure that out.
Well i'm so sorry i didn't get a chance to check out the spelling for you.I was in a rush. But is that any of you're business (I think not).Well tell me then what the United States should have done general idiot?The U.S. isn't the only country over their and other countries are contributing to the war.So i guess the whole world is wrong.I don't want any instant people to die but war is not pretty.The U.S has given them a chance to give bin laden up they choose not too. Germany and Russia are not stupid enough to allow known terrorist to stay in their country.They all want peace and freedom like everyone elts.But ware do you draw the line when it comes to peoples lives.Just tell me what you would have done seeing that you're the expert.Blood sometimes has to shed for freedom.The Jewish go through it everyday!.And the world has to do something to eliminate terror. evan if action done seem to be wrong or right. And lives sometime will be taken to stop the violence.We need to step up and do something now not later!! And to add to your little comment i'm not perfect. I do make mistakes every day. That's the price you pay for being human.But it's a thin line when terror like this happens do you do something now or wait till it happens again.So please explain it to me seeing that your the professor?(Mr.perfect)
-------Message for thecrawley----- about how you pointed out that releasing the tape was a bad thing because it will only make the people who lost loved ones sadder and such, well They announced that the reason they released those tapes was to more or less prove Bin Laden's direct involvement, because believe it or not, a lot of people in the world actually thought Bin Laden had NOTHING to do with it, this was there evidence to prove he does, and evidence to fully justify our bombing for all the people bitching about how we should be sending misstles until we absolutely know for sure.
i think we would have attacked any country who would have done what happened on sep. 11, there isnt a nation in the world who could defeat us. and the whole world knows it.
yea, exactly, but if they all "know it" locke, then if they feel threatened there more likely to all side up against us if neccessary, doesnt apply to present times, just saying, we're never invincible, nor should we ever think we are
No mercy for what we are doing No thought to even what we have done We don't need to feel the sorrow No remorse for the helpless one
War without end No remorse No repen We don't care what it meant Another day Another death Another sorrow Another breath No remorse No repent We don't care what it meant Another day Another death Another sorrow Another breath
Blood feeds the war machine as it eats its way across the land We don't need the feel the sorrow No remorse is the one command
Only the strong survive No one to save the weaker race We are ready to kill all comers Like a loaded gun right at your face ( Attack !!!) Bullets are flying People are dying with madness surrounding all hell's breaking loose Soldiers are hounding Bodies are mounting cannons are shouting to take their abuse With war machines going Blood starts to flowing No mercy given to anyone hear The furious fighting Swords are like lighting It all becomes frightening to you Know death is near No remorse
