My girlfriend has an old Pentium 266 (or 220?) mhz rig, with 64mb of RAM, running Win ME. This thing is slow, loaded with spyware. She no longer has the install CD for Win ME, and I told her that at this point, it would be better to just do a clean install and start from scratch. I've been thinking of installing Win98 SE, just to free up more RAM for her so she can run Office 2000. I'm not sure what the hardware/OS requirements are of her high-speed net service, but it should run fine under Win 98.
My questions is this: Should Iinstall Win 98 SE, or is it worth keeping ME on and just cleaning out the spyware and other garbage? I don't know a whole lot about pre-XP versions of Windows (I come from a Powermac, OS 8 background), but I've heard bad things about Win ME. What's so special about Win ME, if anything?
Notihing is special about Me, besides it's general overall crappiness. It's got the same guts as 98. My advice is to see if you can locate a copy of Windows 2000, the machine will be much more stable, easier to use and play nicer with your high speed interweb. I imagine you can find copies of 2k very easily, very cheaply.
I'd put a noob friendly linux w Open Office on that box before I subjected someone to 98 or Me.
if it were me i would install linux. it can certainly make an old computer come back to life. i really like ubuntu for beginners and experts. it's an easy install and comes with all of the apps she'll need including open office for word, excel and power point. it's also much more stable than windows 98 and comes with support.
did you guys read what he said ? his girlfriend is using the computer. What girlfriend would want to use linux or know how to use it. I put my money on Win2k, had it running on my old computer, works like a charm.
shocks...let's just say that my dad is probably 50 times less computer literate than ltd's girlfriend and i have him up and running linux and he loves it. no more viruses...spyware...just a clean running system that he uses for his business. as for women using linux there are many that do. linux is very popular throughout europe and has become much easier to use. i prefer ubuntu over windows xp. linux isn't just for geeks anymore.
yah.. your dad probably had the desire. Much women wouldn't want to learn a whole new OS when they know how to use Windows already and Spyware, that could be prevented with an OS aswell. Your right.. many women to use linux, but if his girlfriend has an old computer that means she isn't to much into computers or atleast the way i see it. Maybe he can share with us.
ltd the only special feature the ME has over win98 is the abillity to crash at the drop of a hat and to corupt data on a whim.
your best bet is to look around college and spadina in toronto and see if you can't dig up a copy of win98 or win2k.
fourtunatly for you there are no req's for high speed interweb, regardless what rogers, bell, primus, says unless you're going to run thier crappy software, and I'm not mearly saying this as a user, but as a techie for an isp. =D
planb, the man's gf want to use office not open office, so why bother mentioning linux. yes yes I know itd free, she can use oo, but thats not what she wants.
did you guys read what he said ? his girlfriend is using the computer. What girlfriend would want to use linux or know how to use it.
You're a fucking chauvinistic piece of shit for assuming girls can't find their way around Linux.
Seriously.
but if his girlfriend has an old computer that means she isn't to much into computers or atleast the way i see it.
Or she's got a low budget, or it's a hand-me-down that she wants to get running, or she doesn't have a need for a fancy-pants computer with dual dual-core processors, four gigs of RAM, a petabyte of hard drive space and the best damn graphics card on the market.
You can conduct a study of women that use linux and you'll come up with results from 100 in 10,000. When you have results like that, i talk in general.
Sometimes people need to read over what they read.
"Maybe he can share with us." See that line, it indicates that i'm not sure why his gf has an old computer and am asking him to tell me why. I stated a possible reason for having one.
That fact that she might not want a dual-core processors also shows that she doesn't care much about computers and just needs it to browse or do simple things which would also explain why it's just good to find a copy of 2k and reinstall the whole computer.
You can conduct a study of women that use linux and you'll come up with results from 100 in 10,000. When you have results like that, i talk in general.
Until you can show me where you got those numbers, I won't believe you. And your "statistic" would be better written as 1 in 100.
That fact that she might not want a dual-core processors also shows that she doesn't care much about computers
Uh, no. You don't need to have the latest and greatest in hardware to care about computers. You also missed the point of my grossly exaggerated example.
and just needs it to browse or do simple things
You say that like Linux is a crippled, terminal-based hack of an operating system. Heard of KDE? GNOME? How about Konqueror, Kmail, or KOffice? No? Surely, then, you've heard of Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice.org.
...Right?
which would also explain why it's just good to find a copy of 2k
Yeah, because it's blatantly obvious Windows 2000 is the solution to this problem.
You can conduct a study of women that use linux and you'll come up with results from 100 in 10,000. When you have results like that, i talk in general.
I find this amusing, becuase not far from me there's a linux cafe, owned and operated by a couple of women. might also point out that or collge's IT dept is about 3/4 women, who I might add take care of the linux servers and the monster aix mainframe.
So yeah 1 out of a 100 seems to be a good number. =D
Just becuase you never hear of it don't dissmiss it. Women are hard core *nix users when they want to be.
i don't need to show you no numbers.. Go on the street or your school and start asking women or girls what linux is.. they'll look at you like your talking about an animal.
"Uh, no. You don't need to have the latest and greatest in hardware to care about computers"
Saying that is like saying that an artist wouldn't go buy professional tools but go and buy some tools from the dollar store. If she enjoyed her computer should would have bought a new one and not had any spyware on it.. Just the fact that she had spyware on it shows she doesn't know much about computers hence why it wouldn't be a good idea to install linux because ltd would have to teach her how to use it.
"Yeah, because it's blatantly obvious Windows 2000 is the solution to this problem."
It would be much much easily than installing an OS someone isn't familiar with and having to teach it to them. When all ltd can simply install w2k and install a proper antivirus program like nod32 and have some sypware program and all problems are solved. Again windows would be also better for her because the compatibility list for apps is much bigger than linux.
and i doubt that ltd's girlfriend would be a "nix" user, 1 in 100, whatever you want to call it.. still the same thing and point.
"Go on the street or your school and start asking women or girls what linux is.. they'll look at you like your talking about an animal." That same arguement could just as easily be made using males. There is a very very large portion of the population that is computer illiterate BOTH male AND female.
and on a side note: I'm female and I LOVE my computer!!! ***hugs her laptop***
oh ya...and to answer the original question: No, there is nothing special about ME...in fact, its probably more of a hinderance than anything else. Win 98 is a pretty solid OS, and if I were you, I'd go with that. Clear the entire pc...and find yourself a copy of 98 on eBay (they are super cheap).
Indeed, last year I had a p1, always had it with ME, until I got sick of all the errors, the slowness, etc. So i just switched to win 98, and it works pretty well, i know people with a p3 that runs worse than my old p1.
If I had to make up my mind right now in the same situation I'd go for linux, and I would reccommend you linux too, there are pretty user-friendly versions like the ones pointed above etc etc, all I have to say has pretty much been said, im just backing up here.
it's ok.. i wasn't expecting you to come up with anything to say anyways.
I was going to let this one go, but if it's a debate you want, it's a debate you'll get.
i don't need to show you no numbers..
If you're going to use numbers to back up your argument, you'd do well to back them up. Otherwise, you're making up "facts" to cover your ass, and that's plain stupid if you're trying to prove a point. And while you're working on statistics and debate, I'd recommend working on your English, as well.
(And please, don't try to write that off with a silly statement like "I'm a fast typer; grammar means nothing to me because I type more words per minute than you do.")
Go on the street or your school and start asking women or girls what linux is.. they'll look at you like your talking about an animal.
Like bijou said, there're just as many guys that don't know what Linux is. Plainly assuming that "women and girls" can't find their way around a computer, or Linux, is at the bare minimum chauvinistic, if not sexist.
"Uh, no. You don't need to have the latest and greatest in hardware to care about computers"
Saying that is like saying that an artist wouldn't go buy professional tools but go and buy some tools from the dollar store.
No, it isn't. I'm sure a computer whiz like yourself would understand the concept of Moore's Law. A computer made within the last year is far from the latest and greatest, but it isn't so outdated as to be the equivalent of your "dollar store purchase." You don't need a 3.0 gigahertz processor to do basic computer-related tasks.
If she enjoyed her computer should would have bought a new one
See my previous statement regarding hand-me-downs, low budgets, etc.
and not had any spyware on it.. Just the fact that she had spyware on it shows she doesn't know much about computers
I know plenty of people who enjoy their computers and have had the misfortune of getting spyware on their computer. Just because you have spyware doesn't mean you're computer-illiterate.
It would be much much easily than installing an OS someone isn't familiar with and having to teach it to them.
You keep saying this- have you even tried a recent release of any Linux distro? You keep spouting FUD about Linux being some ridiculously hard-to-learn operating system, when, in fact, it isn't. Just because it doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it won't fit another person's. Besides, if she was running Linux, she'd have to worry much less about spyware.
Again windows would be also better for her because the compatibility list for apps is much bigger than linux.
But if she's just browsing the Internet, checking her e-mail, and doing some word processing, I'm pretty sure she's not going to need much more than what comes preinstalled with most distributions of Linux.
Now, I'm not saying Linux is better than Windows; each operating system has its strengths and weaknesses. But if you're going to assume she won't be able to get around in Linux simply because she's female, I'm going to call you out on that, and if you're going to indirectly spread FUD about Linux, I'm going to call you out on that as well.
See what you lack is that you don't put your shoes in a womens perspective. You keep talking like i'm going to be using it.
First and foremost, you can't prove this statement because you don't even fucking know me.
"(And please, don't try to write that off with a silly statement like "I'm a fast typer; grammar means nothing to me because I type more words per minute than you do.")"
When I say things I mean them, not just to brush something off quickly. I don't want to get into my life story here but I can tell you one thing and that is that i've killed enough brain cells in my brain to give a fuck about grammar or being literate. Maybe you like to copy and paste what you write into microsoft word and do your little grammar and spelling check but i don't.
As far as numbers go, i don't need to give you any numbers to prove my point. It's called logic. When you have a product like microsoft which is advertised and such a huge company, it's quite easy for everyone to know and use that product. When you have linux on the other hand which is not so popular, less people would know how to use it or heard or it. Based on these facts you could easily put numbers out and create them. It's also based on my personal experience.
Now as far as bijou's comment goes, it's totally correct but see when i said what i said i was specifically talking about LTD's girlfriend because that is the topic of discussion. If this topic was based on both races, i would have written it a whole different way.
"You keep saying this- have you even tried a recent release of any Linux distro? You keep spouting FUD about Linux being some ridiculously hard-to-learn operating system, when, in fact, it isn't. Just because it doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it won't fit another person's. Besides, if she was running Linux, she'd have to worry much less about spyware."
As far as that goes you still don't understand. There is simply no point in teaching her a whole different OS when she is used to her windows. First of all i doubt she will have the desire to learn it. If we take the fact that her computer is old and all she wants to do is use it for her daily things then that's enough to say that she just needs a fresh install of 98 or 2k depending on the req for both OS's. All she's going to need is the proper tools to keep her away from all the harmful things.
"I know plenty of people who enjoy their computers and have had the misfortune of getting spyware on their computer. Just because you have spyware doesn't mean you're computer-illiterate."
Yah your right. Even professional users get spyware but one only gets it if he goes to the wrong place. If one goes to the wrong place then that person didn't know about it. Now there is many places and ways one could get spyware. Example : Clicking on unknown emails = being computer illiterate, going to sites and clicking on everything that pops up = being computer illiterate, accepting files you don't know about = being computer illiterate and there is plenty more. Now you can have an argument about all of them because yah, things slip sometimes but remember he said that she had LOADS of spyware, an intermediate computer user will have minimal spyware but in her case she had lots which can only indicate that she is inexperienced.
"But if she's just browsing the Internet, checking her e-mail, and doing some word processing, I'm pretty sure she's not going to need much more than what comes preinstalled with most distributions of Linux."
Yah that is right but you never know when she'll need that extra program for school or whatever reason that won't work on linux
Finally for the whole moore's law thing. We really can't say nothing about that because we know barely anything about her. Everything here is assumptions based on little facts, so understand I based everything on the info LTD gave us. If it was a guy then i would still have argued the same arguments.
The only problem with your argument is you opened with this:
"did you guys read what he said ? his girlfriend is using the computer. What girlfriend would want to use linux or know how to use it."
The bolded part was a generalized statement, which wasn't made in reference to just LTD's girlfriend. One could argue that the rest of your posts have just been back-peddling.
What girlfriend would want to use linux or know how to use it.
See what you lack is that you don't put your shoes in a womens perspective.
I think that speaks for itself.
The bolded part was a generalized statement, which wasn't made in reference to just LTD's girlfriend. One could argue that the rest of your posts have just been back-peddling.
Bingo.
Now, one more thing:
for the whole moore's law thing. We really can't say nothing about that because we know barely anything about her.
...And you missed my point. Either that, or you don't know how Moore's Law applies to the computer industry.
As far as that goes you still don't understand. There is simply no point in teaching her a whole different OS when she is used to her windows. First of all i doubt she will have the desire to learn it. If we take the fact that her computer is old and all she wants to do is use it for her daily things then that's enough to say that she just needs a fresh install of 98 or 2k depending on the req for both OS's. All she's going to need is the proper tools to keep her away from all the harmful things.
I'm not saying Linux is the only solution; I'm saying you shouldn't be spreading FUD about it.
Examples:
why it's just good to find a copy of 2k
Because, y'know, it's just "bad" to do otherwise.
it wouldn't be a good idea to install linux because ltd would have to teach her how to use it.
Who taught her how to use Windows? Seriously, if you've tried any recent distribution of Linux with GNOME or KDE, you'd know how user-friendly they are, and how they're relatively painless to make a transition to.
I'm not a Linux zealot, nor an OS X zealot, nor a Windows zealot; each operating system is good at different things. I wasn't arguing that LTD's girlfriend should switch to Linux. Heck, I'd say she's best off with a copy of Windows 2000, just as you suggested, but I won't stand by and let someone bash Linux into the ground, especially when there's a strong chance it's a viable option. Granted, LTD was a Linux user, so I'm fairly certain he could've rattled off a spiel for it, but I was making a point for the people who might read this thread in the future.
Now, to get this thread back on track:
In order, I'd recommend Windows 2000, a distro of Linux (Mandriva and Ubuntu or Kubuntu come to mind) and Windows 98.
i had the same problem, but i had some better hardware. it was a celeron 466mhz, 160mb ram, 4mb grafix and a 80g hdd with 7200rpms. it is really recommended to have a fast hdd because of virtual memory.
ms-os i tried: - win95b(ie5.5)/works good - win98se(ie6)/slower than win95b - nt4(sp6)/works great but no drivers for my graca - win2000(sp3)/works ok - winXP/works ok
the only problem was the browser with that slow cpu: - firefox loads....but slowly. it is a cpu sucker on my setup and tabbed browsing is like pure horror. - opera wasnt better than fox. - k-meleon was very fast compared to fox and opera. - ie was the fastest (tried some older frontends like myie and networker).
linux: - ubuntu, damn it was soooooo slow. - arklinux fucked up during installation. - precompiled linux is not the best choice for your setup try "gentoo" instead.
so my suggestions for your setup: - try win95b (when you dont use usb), win95c (when you use usb). - or try nt4 with sp6. - if you wanna try linux use gentoo with a leightweight windowmanager (icewm, blackbox, enlightenment...).
You guys need to learn how 1 can expand. I say something and you think it's that and only that. I generalized because thats how it is with women, men, about linux. Like i said, read what i write. It applies to both races but in this one we were talking about WOMEN with linux because ltd's girlfriend is a lady. Also i'm not spreading fud as you like to call it. I'm giving you facts about both products and who usues it and who doesn't. Now who taught her how to use windows ? who taught you ? You either grew up with it in school or your parents bought you a win 95 computer, again i dont need to expand on this. You honestly just have to read my posts and understand them the right way which you seem not to understand. I never said she is going to have a hard problem learning linux. I said she won't have the desire based on the info ltd gave us about her computer and what has happened to it.
Finally this thread wasn't hijacked. We have been talking about the first post this whole time. Next time stop trying to find the mistakes i make instead read them over and understand them in different ways.
this post has gotten off topic...the funny thing is that my girlfriend is probably like ltd's girl. not sure but she has an oudated computer and uses it for basic tasks like surfing the internet, getting email and writing an occasional word doc or excel. i installed ubuntu on her computer and she really doesn't even know it's not some version of windows. linux has gotten much easier to use. i simply installed a few desktop icons...one to get onto firefox...one for thunderbird...one to open a word document in open office another for excel doc...u get the picture. she thinks it's microsoft office and she can open and save word docs. again she isn't much into computers and it serves all of her needs. everyone here thinks they know exactly what ltd's girlfriend wants. bottom line is none of us do we can merely give suggestions. i would also suggest windows 2000 but it's a bit more bloated for the computer being installed on. ltd is familiar with both windows and linux so he should be able to make a decent choice. let's try to offer the best advice we can and avoid name calling...stereotypes...and arguing with one another. there is really no need. we are all here for the same thing.
"i installed ubuntu on her computer and she really doesn't even know it's not some version of windows." hahahahaha! nice!
as for Advent and Shocks...you are both right and wrong at the same time. Based on this...you two will never meet in the middle no matter how much you debate it! Shocks has made some rational assumptions about a user's ability based on the pc they own (which admittantly is not a perfect model) and all Advent is saying, is that girls can use Linux. Both are corret...so lets just settle this...and say that I'm a girlfriend and I can use linux, and possessing the title of "girlfriend" in no way assumes one's level of computer literacy. Also...there are plenty of people with shitty computers that are interested in them, and an equally large amount with great computers that know nothing. DONE.
Thanks for all the responses. Helped me make up my mind.
Special thanks to all the Linux-supporters for chiming in. I have fond memories of Linux, but . . . .
She's used to Windows and Windows apps, so I won't rock the boat. Until she gets a new comp, it'll be Win 98 SE (which I already have), with Office 2000. The only reason I'm not opting for Win 2k is because it'll require more RAM, and if we're going to spend $$ we'd rather get a brand new system. Not sure how Win 98 SE will play with high-speed connections, but we'll find a way around that. It'll probaby be fine, anyway.
I might as well tell everyone how things turned out, since what I did surprised the hell outta me.
So, the PII-266 (now with 192mb of RAM, though it only shows 160) is running Windows XP, on a 15gig HD (got it to install on a 2.5gig also), and things are running as smooth as silk. Plays music, videos, everything with no real slowdowns. I even installed Office 2003 and that's running well, too.
LOL, is ithis normal?? I mean, the "system" section in the control panel does say 266mhz. I assume the extra RAM is what's making a difference.
Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised . . . and her too.
One little snag is that she's got a Riva 128 card in there, and I can't find any XP drivers for it. Maybe Nvidia has some decent generic drivers, but I'm not sure what to look for. The Nvidia site seems to list only drivers for specific cards. There seems to be no XP driver for the Riva 128 card, but there's an NT 4.0 driver. Will that work?
Load up 98se with firefox for the browser. I recomend a specially tweaked version of bblean in the shape of explorer for the shell. Some girls take to it; others don't. A few go back to it for the stability and speed.
I'm actually a fan of 98se and recomend it. I know others have problems, but it's from explorer (web/shell) usually. There are also a lot of speed options and tweaks you can use.
Here is the really crazy thing: that computer is a lot like what WinT had for a long time (and still may have). Catch him at http://www.virtualplastic.net if you want to REALLY know what 98 can do.
