do you guys think customizing is dead? i mean ,when i look at the latest submissions , not only here at custo but on the internet in general , there is absolutly nothing that makes me go ..wow, while two years ago you could come here and bump into some real original work ...these days everybody seems to be copycating stuf with here and there some minor changes...brown seems to be in these days since 7 out of 10 SS using a brown vs...stuff we have seen hundreds of times before is getting re-uploaded. and not only SS, i'm talking about players skins...wallpapers...its getting kind of boring seeing that same trendwhore 3d pushing buttons work or minimalistac with a nice font kind of stuff...
customizing is slowly fading away in un-originality
Heh, there is a trend going on? Since when do we have trends in the creative community? Weird. And yes things have stopped completely, there is nothing new going on. We've hit absolute zero in the creative department. We are taking pixels in two dimensional arrays and copying color values and positional coordinates exactly. We are stuck, permanently in this state now, forever. The first time in the history of any field in creative arts, mind you. Yes, we have accomplished this here, at Customize.org. Take note!
"customizing is slowly fading away in un-originality" Maybe so but it's better then sticking too default windows which is why we customize in the 1st place.
customizing is very much alive ....yet i don't see nothing happening , what i'm saying is that a few years back the people whom were into customizing always looked for new things, new ways to do stuff , take it to that other level . now i just see visual styles with some editing ,a foobar skin and some edited icons...there's still a few guys out there like "aakio" is a name that pops up whoms stuff i like watching , you can see that he puts time in his customizing , those litl details and things thats customizing to me and i remember this site was all about trying to come up with sommething new, now we have allot of the same , ...probably a trend
i agree that pep (aakio) is king. his shots are of the utmost quality and polish every time he submits. he's definitely someone i look up to when i customize, but it'd take most of us a looong time to put forth a submission of equal measure.
that being said, pep usually releases each and every part of his screenshots, making the learning process that much easier. we all appreciate these kind of gestures. generic, i can agree with you in that we'd all like to more peps and akkas and the like, just for sheer inspiration.
I think it would be better, and a bit more truthful, to say that while customizing is still alive and well, the art inherent to customization is on a swift downturn. I've made this point before (both on these forums and again on the GSM forums, I believe), so I won't go into great detail, but it seems that, expanding on what fate said, over the past few years, ingenuity has been severely lacking from the community.
Back in my heyday, if you will, in 2002-04, there was a constant battle between roughly ten fellows to outdo one another; one person would come up with an idea, and the rest would either try to improve upon the idea or create something altogether better. Now, it seems that, once that one person comes up with something, a vast majority of the remaining customizers merely take that idea and use it, perhaps with a slight color change or the addition of a different gradient.
Honestly, it seems as though the only thing we can do is hope that Vista can expand the process a bit, giving those of us with keen intellects and creative mindsets the opportunity to showcase their talents to a much greater degree. As much as I hate to say it, the XP engine has been more or less exhausted, much as 2K was five years ago. The introduction of new concepts can only go so far. In order for customization to remain an art form, if you will, it's up to us to be willing to try new things, and, perhaps more importantly, expand on these things rather than being content to merely stagnate.
(I apologize, in advance, if the preceding post came off as egotistical; that wasn't my intention.)
There are always trends... clinical to mention one. As neodude said, I think customizing is primary a personal thing, and not really something to entertain others.
customizing has been slack more and more of late. but you've also gotta take some other factors into consideration:
one is that there are a lot of people who are new to customizing that are trying their hand at it and, quite simply, it's a learning process and is easier to start off simple rather than complex.
second, a lot of the people who were submitting several years ago may not have the time to sit down and create something for release. many of them have moved on in life and either graduated from school, started college, or now have jobs that take up much of their time.
third, and i think more relevant to the downswing, is that there is simply nothing new to customize. everything that's out there has been skinned, hacked, and scaled down as much as possible. there's not really much that's come out in the last 2-3 years that's been worth taking a go at. with the release of vista there is something new to work with. however, vista is still very new and not many people are jumping on that bandwagon yet. maybe in a year or so when more people have reason to move from xp to vista we'll see more innovative things occurring. the best we can hope for is that new programs come out, or old ones find new life in being updated to work well on vista (at the least).
all it takes is one little push to get the ball rolling...or, in this case, one submission to get a new trend started.
i'm definitely going to agree with neodude. customizing is a personal thing. lately, i've been worrying a bit about what type of screenshot i should do, what would impress, what would out-do so and so, but then i realized that i should just do something i personally like, instead of worrying about what other people think. sure, you hope to create something original and different, but at the same time, you're the one using the setup, so first and foremost it should be yourself who likes the setup, not other people.
as far as it "being dead", i think it was going down the tubes, but lately i think it's starting to revive more. suites like Lucid, Chiral, and GSM are popping up. GSM is currently working on a new suite, so that's going to come out. uac marine and akka recently submitted some stuff, too. so no, i don't think customizing is dead. i think it's just in a recovery stage.
I think Fenris makes really good points. The reason it feels like it's dying IS because there isn't a whole lot new to do. And as for Vista-- there does need to be some new programs to customize vista really. But I can confirm that LS works-- transparency in LS however doesn't so well. And ShellWM works about the same as it did in XP.
And Neodude and Relik do make very good points I agree entirely...upon trying to make a screen shot again I realized I lost some programs due to Vista. And had less to customize, nothing new to customize, and most of all I love minimalism and don't like flashy useless crap.
Which makes me not want to do a whole lot of extra stuff for visual appeal-- and I kept going back and forth on my desk because I was trying to think of what others would like. But why would you make your desktop so OTHER people like it? You are in fact the one that has to use it, therefore you must like it. Which means you're not gonna do certain things or styles because you yourself don't like them, so it can be more limiting and confining.
But I think we should try to think of the stand still positively also, and keep in mind what Fate0000 said: "We are stuck, permanently in this state now, forever. The first time in the history of any field in creative arts, mind you. Yes, we have accomplished this here, at Customize.org. Take note!" And then in the back of your head hope that new things will be made and the customizing will be revived.
I feel very comfortable with my XP SP1 setup. I think the 'trend' we are going through, at this site mainly, is one that mimics the minimal turn alot of professional, digital art styling like one might see on a high-dollar website. in a setup, the vs becomes the interface, and the wall, icons, and other elements are the stunning decoration that interface behaves in. each of these elements may be also be minimal, but to em, only for the reason that minimal is a comfortable, smooth style for any interface, and not to mention these kind of system use numbers. i also agree w neodude, i can't really achieve the amazing results in photoshop that i'd like to be able to, but i've gone from changing my desktop around 4-5 times a day to building my setup to my exact liking and not changing a thing for months. to me, that's the pinnacle of customizing, being totally comfortable with your setup. since we all do this for and in a money-free environment, all the rest is just finesse.
I read this discussion with it´s replies the last two days.
Last week i had a talk with Nelson. He noticed that there´s a difference between a conceptional professional designer and us (him and me in that context) doing art/ graphics for personal use or expression.
As for me there are ideas. There are some notes or observations. From outside, while reading papers or browsing through portfolios.
Back in 2003 (i think) i downloaded a WinAmp skin by coincidence. And i asked Shocks how to change some graphics. At that time i had pretty bad marks in school and just broke up a relationship. With skinning i found something silent which gave me time and place to think about those things which happened or are still happening.
Then i wanted to make a step forward. Some people are still angry about my habit to delete submissions from time to time. But somehow i found no way to make that step forward i always wanted to go.
From time to time three other people with a similiar mind came to me. Now we are a team. And now it´s 2007. 4 years later. We are all working. Somehow related with graphics or art.
And i see this concrete circle of motivation, disappointment and emptyness coming back in different time frames.
What i would like to say is that this is a moment which will happen and already happened often. The community has changed. The offers have changed. Now there is a new Customize.org. People at DeviantArt are also talking about the different kind of offers like HumbleVoice, the uncountable big number of blogs and forums. (Other people starting a business with their talent like Pete at Funkrush...)
As for me i found that "step forward" i was talking about in bringing those works from my display to my reality. Today i am playing with musicians, trying to write articles and to have good discussions with other people. Today those things i´ve learned here and later at DeviantArt are some roots i really don´t want to miss.
To put it in one sentence. It´s not about the market and it´s demand. Art and graphics should be about you. And you don´t have to be ashamed of what you´ve done. It´s you and your art.
Starting with that big coin in your pants you can´t do boring stuff at all.
since allot of people here are refering to customizing as some type of art / layout designers, wallpaper designers ...whatever you want to call it , i'm doing my masters at the royal academy of art and all these years i have worked with the idea that the essention of what makes an artist an artist is being creatif AND at the same time original, ofcourse when you customize you do it for yourself but from the moment someone is uploading his or hers screenshot, wallpaper ..there is always that human feel for competing, for me it was like that ,trying to show whatever new thing you came up with , now i'm talking about customizers ,cause thats what customizing is about,and thats what allot of people where about , i'm not talking about people that just instal a vs and be happy with the look they got just to get away from the default xp look . if you look at this from that point yeah than customizing is in full effect ...if you look at it from the customize point seeing the customizer customizing ,making wallpapers...as a form of art ,then i stick with the idea that customizing is dead...nothing new, nothing creative , with verry few exeptions
@relik : art is ALL about being creative and self expression , at the same time, self expression comes in a personal form how can you expres yourself as an artist when all you do is copy some other artists work, then you are only showing us what style you like (going with the idea that customizing is some form of art/ designing)
examples....open you're eyes and take a look around man...if someone pops up with a good looking SS with some originality to it ,the folowing 3 months all you see is allot of the same...i'm not going to name anny names on this mather
Wow Generic you really not gonna drop this are you until we all agree with you which of course will never happen unless hell freezes over. Get over it.
@generic - that is an example of something becoming a trend. it happens in art, books, music, fashion, etc etc. that's nothing new. part of how trends work is that one person does something, then another person likes it and tries to emulate what the first person did, and then another person tries and so on. there's nothing wrong with trends. it's part of being human to see something, like it, and try to imitate it.
@ neodude,: get that stick out of you're ass man, you don't have to agree with me and i'm not trying to convince you or annything ,i'm just replying to as how i see it... ,do you have sommething to prove maybe? + you don't have to reply nor read the postings i make .. or are you still upset about my older postings ...moron
Not really upset couse can't remeber what you put and yes it is very easy just to ignore your threads on here but sometims i need a laugh.
just bugs me when you won't stop banging on about things that are only right in your head. Bring back the days when you used to post Screenshots and not start forum debates about the USA oh trends. Good job the custo admins are friendly enough to let you keep posting on here any other place would of banned you ages ago..
you must be one of the biggest wankers on here 'dude"...when i'm buged about someone or something i just ignore the guy or the situation...the real laugh is how worked up you people get over nothing really ..and they wanna ban me they can go ahead , i won't lose anny sleep over it
last time i checked this was a general "discussion" forum , you know where people can come and talk /discuss things ...but i'm guessing that since wanker neodude gave his opinion everybody should just shut up and never reply again on the topic ...ignorant prick
Yep everything summed up about me and everything else so nicely there that i no longer need to post on here, i say one thing though it's so easy to be bugged by a person who is always right.
its easy to bug you cause you take shit way to serious asshole , idiot gets all worked up for nothing , what a retard , go meditate or do yoga or sommething , gotta think about you're blood pressure.
Thanks chums, alot of screen ripping from me I know but you know what harm is it doing? I'm not releasing any off the stuff and oh claiming it to be my own work. Anyhow you can say all you want I don't care anymore.
when i 1st joined back in 2005 it wasn't serious at all, the b&w imrik/sticboy trend was just being perfected and alot of good stuff was coming out, i got some praise and respect and it made me happy and to carry on with what i was doing until i improved with the things i used, Pep was a big help in sending me the stuff he was using and so used alot of his stuff for my setups but now it's become to serious and if anyone rip's someone vs oh ls oh use the same wall then it's deemed a rip/copy even though you intention in the 1st place was to show all you can customize your desktop and git rid of defult windows.
My head has been into customizing too much and not had time for other things, theres a world out there to discover and not to waste alot of time customizing a desktop
that being said dave, come back and submit a shot for ss '07. i'm working on what i think is a pretty good lookin' piece, and since you inspired me back in the day, even when you did 2.0 versions of existing shots, you should definitely try and think of something to submit.
maby cuz people are so used to seeing good skins that our expectations are so much higher. I mean a few years ago when something real good looking came out it was amazing. but now there are programs to help customizers meke even better grafics. (sorry for my spelling)
To me, the whole point of submitting a screen is to show what you can bring to the table. It's okay to be inspired by trends and the such, but what's the point of some of these carbon copies? Be inspired, but please for the love of God give it your own flare, as slight as it may be.
Show what you can do, not that you can do what others are doing.
i think that. as new technologies come out there will be spurts of originality, but you damn nerds know your stuff.
keep up the good work.
so a side question. i changed bblean slightly and i think it will be popular, i want to post this to see if people do like it. can i post it as a new bblean or change the name of it or wat?
One of the reasons skinners make less original artwork (and I know this from talking to skinners) is that people get tired of working on something for weeks that's new and original only to have someone comment "fugly".
WindowBlinds gets hammered right here on Customize.org because people say its skins are "bulky" or "bloated". There's a very significant negative incentive to create "minimalistic" skins as a result which tend to look pretty much all the same.
You don't have to make a bulky bloated skin with every feature including the kitchen sink to be original. You CAN be original with a more minimalistic theme. I personally have ALWAYS loved minimal themes, before they became the "trend" ok.
Skins are supposed to be visually appealing. But are not supposed to lag your (possibly old) system. OR cover up useful information you're trying to look at on your screen. With no titlebars, I can maximize some thing and virtually have the entire screen covered.
Whether or not you believe it. Minimalism is NOT a bad thing. And they don't ALL look the same. The minimal b&w vs has just taken over a lot of people is all. Take Akka's SSC07 screen shot. It is still considered more minimal. YET it won, and looks fantastically beautiful due to all the art work.
Please just get over yourself already, we all know you work for Stardock, you don't need to be pushing your product all the time. And NO I am not trying to start a fight, I and probably more people are just tired of this. So don't take offense.
Well gosh Pyro, maybe you can show us some skins you've made to show everyone else how to be original.
Let's recap:
1) User comes on and asserts that customization is dead and that there's a lack of originality in skins.
2) A couple people agree that there seems to be a trend towards similar looking skins.
3) I respond that some skinners have told me directly that they have started making conservative minimalistic skins because when they try something unusual or creative they get native comments.
4) You respond giving me a lecture on what originaltiy and creativity is. No offense but it's a lot easier to make a pretty screenshot than to make a pretty and original skin.
As for me pushing my product, get over yourself. If you think commenting on a post on a forum is an effective means of adveritsing then I hope you're not in marketing for a living.
I work for Stardock. I've also been on this site as an active user for over 7 years. You got a problem with me, well too bad. I'll post however I like.
Yeah, ok, I've had people ask me to release my stuff plenty of times. But I never felt like it, PLUS my personal taste in things, includes purple. Apparently people aren't fond of that color. ALSO I go SO effin' minimal that other people think it's unusable. But for me it's absolutely perfect.
Yeah and I bet those "some skinners" are WB skinners. *Ahem* But yes, we've already discussed the "trends" and all that. Custo isn't exempt from it. It's just like fashion, and what have you.
BUT you ARE freakin' pushing your product. AND NO ONE FREAKIN' LIKES IT OK?! I don't effin' care if you know it's not good advertising, if it isn't why are you doing it then?! Huh?! All it does is annoy people, people don't like you, ok? Is that what you need to hear? And not just me.
Pyro: I guess I don't really care if you like me or not. How's that sit with you?
How about this: Anyone reading this post who has a problem with me, please don't buy our software -- ever.
I am not here trying to sell anyone anything. I am here talking about customization, something I care a lot about -- enough that part of my job involves making it.
So any who thinks I'm here pushing software, please, by all means, never purchase anything from us ever.
And with that in mind, I'll continue to correct ignorant, self-important bullcrap about our software. Not because I'm hoping to sell software one copy at a time but on the principle that it's ignorant self-important bullcrap about our software that when left unchallenged allows other ignorant self-important people to regurgitate it without doing any sort of look up.
*Snap* Oh darn... now I can't buy your overpriced software. I feel so sad, I think I'll go cry now...
And I have tried your little WB program a few times. And by the way, it didn't work so nicely on Vista for me. SHELLWM worked better. And that is old as heck.
And I'm done with you. You took a month to answer a simple question I had about your software. You can go ... nevermind. I am indeed done with you. I'm not posting any more replies to you.
Yes, everyone knows FrogBoy is from Stardock. He doesn't try to hide this fact -- it's in his profile. Yes, he mentioned WindowBlinds in his post. So what? As far as I can tell, FrogBoy was just giving his 2 cents on the thread topic. If anyone else had made the same comment, no one would have thought it was pushing a product.
Does FrogBoy have certain biases? Sure, we all do. But does that mean he should be flamed for contributing to the discussion like any other member in our community? Of course not. You don't need to like FrogBoy and you don't need to like Stardock's products, but please treat everyone here with respect.
having tried WB's latest version, and having used a hacked uxtheme and vs's for a long while now, i personally choose vs's for the zero footprint. the capabilities of the two are nearly identical, and i'm not willing to sacrifice usage for WB's extra skinning features. that being said, there is a simple trend in WB and vs skinning that has one at the forefront of 'non-minimal' theming and one ruling the 'minimal' scene. most of what is considered to be top quality work on either side could be achieved in either format, but ports are rarely created.
i think the main players at this site are on the cutting edge of innovation in desktop styling, 'minimal' or not. look at such websites as iso50, humblevoice, or any other site that a great ss has been built off of. the stylings are, by wincustomize standards, 'minimal'. yet these sites, among many others, represent the highest quality and style known to those who actually understand trends in graphics and advertising, which is what i believe ultimately determines this or any designated trend.
since i'm rambling a bit (imo), try this as a final assessment. browse the net for prominent graphic artist/art group websites. surely these exquisitely crafted websites could at least partially provide us with a cross section of what is 'trendy' and 'stylish' in terms of computer created/digital art. i can, without a shadow of a doubt, say that the majority of these sites, adapted into windows skin/screenshot form, would be dubbed 'minimalistic'. in fact, if one site on a list of hundreds even came close to resembling some of todays most popular WB skins, I'd be thoroughly surprised.
after all, and this has been said before, skinning and the appearance of ones desktop is strictly and will always be about ones personal preference. however, if there is any argument about which style is more recognized as 'chic; in the current world of professional digital art, the 'minimal' style which apparently calls this site home, would win 1000x over.
