I am....

evolution is all around you, if you're smart enough to see it.

_
sun, sun, sun

For those who don't know...

A CREATIONIST: A creationist is a person who rejects the theory of evolution and believes instead that the each species on earth was put here by a Divine Being. A Creationist might accept "micro-evolution" (changes in the form of a species over time based on natural selection), but rejects the notion that one species can-- over time-- become another species.

EVOLUTIONIST: An evolutionist accepts the Darwinian argument that natural selection and environmental factors combine to explain the diversity of life we see on earth. An evolutionist may or may not believe that evolution is the way in which a Divine Being has chosen to work in the world. Evolutionists divide into various camps, including PUNCTUALISTS (who believe that evolution usually occurs sporadically, in relatively short bursts, as the result of major environmental change) and GRADUALISTS (who are more inclined to believe that evolution occurs more evenly, over longer periods of time). The PUNCTUALISTS seem now to be winning the argument.

Ref: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects
/ftrials/conlaw/evolution.htm


Matthew 23:24 "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."

From a human perspective, it no longer matters. Mankind is devolving back to a more primitive state. Human society is no longer driven by the goal of reproduction to pass on traits that would ensure the survival of the species. Plus, with modern cosmetic surgery, what you see of someone's outward appearance may or may not be what lies in the genetic code of the other person, thereby making the entire act of reproduction into nothing more than a blind guess.

_______________
An empty body but it still bled
Oil from the axle and it left a trail.
Ran down Java street and formed a pool.
Manuela saw the moon in there.

touchy subject.

j3
http://j3concepts.deviantart.com/

There are other viewpoints on creatonism. Some people such as myself believe that a divine creator started creation off and new species of things came from the base species. I think it would be hard to say it is a sure thing either way. It is just as unlikely that gasses and energy just were and somehow came together into modern society just as it is hard to believe that a divine being made everything. Both have major holes in them and both require some faith in the theory.

___________________________________
Dose anybody realy know what time it is?

The "God of the Gaps" panacea -- If I can't comprehend something, God did it. Educate yourself on cosmology, biology and geology before making a conclusion. At least you'll have an informed opinion.

www.toxicana.com

i just dont care :)

_________
Kristhian || '05

I was raised on creation and do still believe it is a nice moral story -- like most of the Bible -- but not something to be taken literally. The Bible is full of many nice moral stories (and many contradictions) that are more than likely based on fact and many other nice stories that I simply see as good fantasy storytelling -- nothing wrong with that......unless you're one that takes its word selectively and literally.

==========================
Well I'm puttin' it down
But you treat me like a clown
And I don't wanna be funny
-- vintage Beck

EVOLUTIONIST!!! There's proof that things evolved and do evolve but NO proof about things coming out of nowere.... The bible and shit like that are just fictional/sci fi fantasy stories...
__________________________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
||pregucoso||

I don't care either way ... Creationism and Evolutionism are both theories, and weak attempts of justification so.

I'm an evolutionary creationist that doesnt care

--== Snowman ==--
Admin @ Skinbase.org
Admin @ Skinz.org
Evil Wizop @ WinCustomize.com

visionleague™

I'm an evolutionist all the way. Who's dumb enough to believe that the earth has only been around for 6000 years and that some magic man just snapped his fingers a few times and out popped creation? No offense to the religious zealots or anything...

everything evolves, but, at the moment, i don't really care either way...

Fenris [fen]
Customize.org Staff
Member Relations

I believe that "The Creator" put the base organism for each species on earth (single selled beings) that, over many, many years evolved into every living thing on earth, and the evolution continues and shall never come to a hault.

-]|G9|[-

im for evolution, and for people who believe in creationism. im against militant views either way.

where is evo anyway?

Enceladus

"where is evo anyway?"

somewhere evolving, I guess. not like any visible staff here actually work on it or know what's going on with it.

colossus72 [c72]
Customize.org Staff
member relations, submissions.

Somthing had to be created first for it to be able to evolve.

damn good thougt

_________
Kristhian || '05

Where did the creator come from? Or is it turtles all the way down?

www.toxicana.com

the whole point of science is to remove doubt through evidence.

where the hell is the supreme being evidence?

you can not reasonably argue with good science. thats why it is science not opinion.


SCIENCE!!!

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~lindstro/

as some one was mentioning our bodies aren't really evolving now. we are taller and we are living longer than are speices orginally planned/could live. once we started thinking evolution for us stopped. im sure it is like this with all intellegent life forms...eventually we will engineer ourselves better bodies because we can..

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~lindstro/

quote by cthu1hu: "Where did the creator come from?"
-----
Thats where "Faith" comes into play :-)

and as science continues to chug ever forward, religion is doomed to fester and rot, stuck in place thousands of years ago.

and to make my ranting complete with a third post...

we are just the end result of a primodial soup that has been cooking for a few billion years or so. you see what happens when you leave your {insert food item} out of the fridge for a few weeks...and multiply that by 10 ^ (100 million years / life cycle of a simple organism as a decimle of years )

you get a lot of things that have died to create the things that are living.

and yea...

ok im done. carry on.

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~lindstro/

Faith is a word to describe something you believe in, but cant prove. For example, if you have a girl/boy friend and you are both in love. You have faith in each other, faith that they won’t cheat on you, faith that they will be with you forever, etc. You don’t really know for sure and you can’t prove it, but you have faith. That’s what faith is. Its something you believe but can’t prove.

Well, faith is great, but when there's proof to the contrary, I'll go that way.

Unfortunately there's no concrete evidence as to the absolute origins of life on earth, but science DOES give us wholly possible theories, based on facts supported by exhaustive research. Evolution is basically a proven at this point though. Pull out the faith to counter that one, quick!

"I have faith contrary to this proven fact, so I am right."

Er. Okay. See any logic errors with that sentence? Oh, whoops, the rules of logic don't apply to faith!

Of course it's impossible to have actually have a discussion about this with someone who has faith. They don't need facts, evidence, etc. All they need is their faith and righteousness! The blood of Jesus, blah blah blah etc,

All they have no say "I have faith in this." and it's true!

Well, I say that I have tremendous faith in the fact that all people who take the Bible literally are retards.

There, I have faith in this. They're all retarded. No arguments to the contrary please, since I have faith in this, it's absolutely true. If I write it down, maybe in 500 years someone will find and it be the work of the prophet c72. Maybe your great great great grandchildren will pray to ME before Math class. Awesome.

Faith is nothing but a personal choice, and if you think that's an argument against scientific fact and theories supported by said facts, you are an uneducated dimwit. Once again, I have complete and utter faith as to the truth of this statement.

And those my personal beliefs, and I have GREAT faith in them. So if you argue with them, I'll just post them again and say I'm right, because of my FAITH.

All said, faith is a lovely thing, and if your faith gives you comfort, I am thrilled for you. If you're right we will indeed know it someday....after we're dead. But if you think you can cram it down my children's throats in the here and now in place of facts, you are sorely mistaken.




colossus72 [c72]
Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew

There is bible faith which you clearly described as being taught by religious folk, but what about faith from the basis of particular or unexplainable events occuring to yourself or others?

"what about faith from the basis of particular or unexplainable events occuring to yourself or others?"

They call that magical thinking :-)
http://skepdic.com/magicalthinking.html

www.toxicana.com

Did some religious fanatic try to flatten you with his faith or something this week colossus?

Matthew 23:24 "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."

This can only end badly.

Nope. Like I said, faith is great. Just keep yours out of mine.

colossus72 [c72]
Customize.org Staff
member relations, submissions.

uh...right, ok. Was that directed at me specifically or the community as a whole?



Matthew 23:24 "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."

"uh...right, ok. Was that directed at me specifically or the community as a whole?"


It was a generalized statement, not directed towards you or any specific person. I would think that's pretty obvious, since I don't know what your beliefs are?
Uh...okay?

"Do you believe in God."
...
"yeah, but not yours."

or better yet...

G.O.D. - Generic Omnipotent Deity

_______________
An empty body but it still bled
Oil from the axle and it left a trail.
Ran down Java street and formed a pool.
Manuela saw the moon in there.

err.. that first line should have a ? not a .

my kingdom for a horse! ...and an edit button

_______________
An empty body but it still bled
Oil from the axle and it left a trail.
Ran down Java street and formed a pool.
Manuela saw the moon in there.

"Did some religious fanatic try to flatten you with his faith or something this week?"

Religious fanatics have seized control of the country. They're trying to rewrite science to support their ideology with scientific fraud and disinformation--like the old style Soviet Union. They're cutting funding and stifling research based on their religious views. They're shaping foreign policy with the express purpose of bringing about the "End Times." http://www.thestranger.com/2004-06-10/fe
ature2.html
And a litany of other issues involving the environment, abortion, church/state, the judiciary, etc., etc..

www.toxicana.com

Living in this day and age with so much evil and chaos around us daily the only way to keep from folding, being depressed and isolating yourself from others is to have faith.

I strive to be a good person in life, it's an everyday battle of choosing to do harm or good but I have faith that I will make the right choices. Faith is what holds our bond to the Lord. Without faith we're doomed.

Don't ever give up faith, you dont have to be a certain religion, do things in a traditional way or be a bible wielding conservative to get close to christ. It's whats in your heart.. Strive to be the best that you can be in life and help others!

Regardless of what you believe if it's that we evolved from something else or if it's we were created in god's image know that It really does'nt matter in the grand scheme of things.


customize.org staff
member relations - accounts
visionleague™

It could be argued that it's religious faith that is responsible for all the evil and chaos currently in the world. We're at war ultimately because of faith.

"Religious faith deserves a chapter to itself in the annals of war technology, on an even footing with the longbow, the warhorse, the tank and the hydrogen bomb." - Richard Dawkins

You don't need religion or faith to be moral (were Native Americans immoral?). In the modern age we have science, reason, and our knowledge of human nature. Christian morals can be broken down to merely the golden rule: Do unto others..., which was said much more eloquently by Confucius 3,000 years earlier. The Boy Scout creed is a more complete example of morals than the xtian doctrine.

Reality does indeed matter -- our ultimate survival as a species could very well depend on what we believe.

www.toxicana.com

we're not at war becuase of faith, we're at war because of religion. They are 2 different things but you are tring to combine them.


customize.org staff
member relations - accounts
visionleague™

"There's proof that things evolved and do evolve but NO proof about things coming out of nowere...."

BOTH sides require GINORMOUS jumps of faith at one point or another. I tend to agree with Obsanity.

The only problem with evolution is that it offers no logical way to explain how it *began*. Yeah yeah, cosmology, the point of singularity, whatever, but we have no direct evidence for those things, and what evidence we do have can be explained by other means.

What I want to know is, why is this a Customize poll? :D

Evolutionist 'till the day I die. The theory of creation is preposterous. I am amazed at the number of people that believe that Earth has existed for slightly less than 6000 years. There are large quantities of evidence supporting evolution and none that support creation. Regarding the "divine being who created Earth", who created him? Where did he come from?

Religions, in my opinion, have been the longest standing organized crime syndicates in history. Some of the most horrendous crimes have been committed in the name of religion. But since those crimes were sanctioned by the "church", they were not illegal. Torture, murder, rape, dismemberment,
theft, ethnic cleansing, and war have been some of the things that have happened because of religion.

Oh well, some people just need to blame a "higher authority" for their social ineptitude. Fortunately, not all religious people take their faith to the extreme. Most of them are really nice people who can easily become your best friends.

Colossus72, once again, you have written the truth and appeased the masses. For this, I thank you. Preach on...

-I am not unemployed, I'm an independent IT consultant.

No time to repeat what everyone has already said.... runs away.

+| he who will kill the god if given the slightest chance |+

www.GIFT333.com

Faith and religion are simply an instrument in society, they fulfill purposes that otherwise would not be fulfilled. We created religion because we are mortal, and life is so unpredictable, and it helps us sleep at night to think that someone out there is "on our side" Religion only fills the gap that science has now (somewhat) filled.

As for Narcos comment "who created him, where did he come from?" I would argue the same thing of evolution....where did it come from? you can't answer that question either. There are only theories, not facts, and some of your theories leave a lot to be desired. Personally, I believe in a combination of both evolution and creation. I see the point that the earth is obviously older than 6000 years, but I also see the point that we don't know where life came from and religion is as good a theory as any.

Another thing, a lot of ppl are assuming that religious people are fanatics and trying to change the public education system and etc. That is only a small minority of people, and there are lots of us out there who see realism but also leave room for faith.

-It's ironic how "civil" is in the word "civilian"-

I agree that religion has been the cause of some of the most horrendous crimes in history, but many, if not the majority, of the human population of the past were (often closely) aligned with one religion or another (much more so than today, often because that's just the way it was back then) so inevitably much of the conflict was based in some way on religion.

We're always going to have conflict, possibly as much as ever, we'll just start blaming more of it on politics, dirt, minerals, water, whatever.

So I don't think religion is to blame for the horrendous crimes of the past (and present), people are. If there was never such a thing as religion there would still have been wars, massacres, etc etc. Religion is just something to blame. Surely the atrocities are just an example of the rotten side of human nature -- abuse of power, an elaborate form of survival of the fittest.

"The most popular doctrine for use in rationalizing evil and immoral actions has surely been Christianity. There is a long record of brutalities and atrocities perpetrated in the name of Christ: the Crusades, the persecution of the Huguenots, periodic waves of anti-Semitism, sporadic witch burnings, the Inquisition, 300 years of Irish "troubles"; the list could go on and on." - Mark I. Vuletic


From his excellent and well researched (research, what's that?) page which you may find here:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cefac.htm#
6.16


Max is right about the distiction between faith and religon. For instance, I try to have faith in myself, loved ones, humanity, etc.

And cthu1hu mentioned that our foreign policy is currently being used to create conditions for something Christians refer to "the rapture". This was something I used to doubt, but the longer Bush keeps doing things that seem have this end as the only point, the more I wonder. It's definitely scary, and maybe that's why I choose to doubt it.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/04/
20/apocalypse-please/

If you believe in dogs, viruses, or cabbage, you believe in evolution.

None of you know what you're talking about. We are not "devolving" (it's impossible to do so), there is concrete evidence of organisms rising from non-organic material (Miller-Urey), and it doesn't really matter if religion started every war ever, as not only does that have nothing to do with the topic, but also religion happens to be the driving force behind almost every discovery and invention (Darwin researched in the name of God).

evloution ... guess what happend with the jellyfish fossils of the australian coasts??? its hard to make a fossil from such an organism, unless... THE GREAT FLOOD! contradictory to the evolution theory... dont know i dont want to mess up with this touchy subject as j3 said

Great link, colossus.

Max was talking about religious faith though, when he stated "Faith is what holds our bond to the Lord," and "to get close to christ." It's rare to see the word being used without religious connotations.

www.toxicana.com

Bijou, I never said that evolution is a fact and I did specify that only a small percentage of religious people have extremist views. "Fortunately, not all religious people take their faith to the extreme. Most of them are really nice people who can easily become your best friends."
Other than that, I really agree with everything you said.

-I am not unemployed, I'm an independent IT consultant.

and who said the great biblical flood didn't happen? there's evidence that it may have. floods happen. you don't have to practice a christian religion to believe in flooding.

it's terribly arrogant to make this a black and white issue and stand absolutely one only side of the fence. at this point, no one really trully KNOWS the truth. if we did, the creation vs. evolution argument wouldn't exist. i like that one scene in kevin smith's dogma movie where chris rock says: "beliefs are dangerous. people have gotten killed over a belief." i prefer having a "good idea" about religion instead of adamant belief.

people who try to cram their belief down your throat (be it creationism or evolution) are the ones who start wars. thank god it's not everyone.

thats very interesting...

http://christiananswers.net/kids/menu-an
s.html

learn if you want to learn, hear and increase in learning...

ether: I've always liked that quote as well.

Custo Staff - Submissions
FrostedFlames Designs™

Browsed that site, kept an open mind, decided it was somewhat misleading. I understand that the content is is intended to be viewed by children but the statement "Who changed the law that cold contracts and heat expands, when it applies to water? The Creator designed it so." is just wrong. Accrediting everything to an "omnipotent deity", whichever it may be, will remove curiosity from children. Why? Because they will believe everything is "god's will." When a child loses interest in learning, they do bad in school. Then they drop out, turn to crime, etc.

That's just my two cents on that website. Granted, other things are explained using less "brain-washing" language.

-I am not unemployed, I'm an independent IT consultant.

if we evolved... why havent we kept on evolving... we've been in this state for how long now?

j3
http://j3concepts.deviantart.com/

yep... very touchy subject.

j3
http://j3concepts.deviantart.com/

well, in a way we have kept evolving...

people keep getting taller, we are less hairy? The basis of evolution is that organisms only adapt to their enviroment when they have to.

Though I'm not saying that makes it so...

Will we ever discover the truth? Probably not. We will have destroyed ourselves with antimatter first.

compo | customizing since 1906

So I guess calling me a racist and then refusing to talk the matter out with me is your way of striving to be a good person max?

ether:
"and who said the great biblical flood didn't happen? there's evidence that it may have. floods happen. you don't have to practice a christian religion to believe in flooding."

Yes you are right there is indeed evidence that massive floods have happened. The Black Sea for instance:
http://www.google.com/search?q=black+sea
+flood

This however is not the 40 days and 40 nights of rain as in the Bible. It is a local, not global event. But it could have been the basis for the Bible myth, and if so discredits the Bible as the word of God.

Too Poor To Be Eccentric
http://www.adamdorman.com

ether: There's so much wrong with your post my head asplode.

www.toxicana.com

giraffe: truth gets lost over time but inside every story and myth that gets passed down there's a kernel of authenticity in it. maybe it wasn't 40 days or 40 nights and maybe it really wasn't the entire world that got flooded, but to the people living in that area in that time, the whole world WAS only what they saw. the same idea can be said for the popular mantra that "the bible is the word of god". historically speaking, the bible was more a recording of all the hebrew histories and some parts of that contain the word of god. or, if we're looking at it from the viewpoint of faith, the bible is totally the word of god because god empowered the writers of the bible to record his words and histories. there're a lot of ways to look at it. my point is, and where i stand in religion actually, is that it's hard to take an absolute stance on something that A) happened a looooong time ago and B) is so much intertwined with faith. and i respect my fellow mankind too much to immediately discredit their faith because it's not like i'm god of this world and know all its secrets and mysteries.

cthu1hu: well, once you get over your headache, pray lemme know what's so wrong with my post. :)

"inside every story and myth that gets passed down there's a kernel of authenticity in it"

Not neccesarily. Do you believe there is truth in every story and myth in greek mythology? Titans? Zeus? Hercules? ...I dont think so.

Custo Staff - Submissions
FrostedFlames Designs™

Wow what a can of worms!

I geuss we will all find out when we DIE !

ps: I cant wait :)

fractal.design

When we die we rot in the soil
__________________________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
||pregucoso||

the world exists only in the human mind. not the mind of the individual but the mind of the colective, therfore if i tell you the world was created yoesterday and i have control of the collective it was created yesterday.

"Not neccesarily. Do you believe there is truth in every story and myth in greek mythology? Titans? Zeus? Hercules? ...I dont think so."

very true. i concede that point and mend my words: "inside a lot of stories is a kernel of truth." some stories seem more plausible than others and i give those stories the benefit of the doubt.

A lot of people have mentioned the word truth, well there is no such thing as truth. 2+2=5 if i tell you so and if you beleive it it is even more so.

Oneil: go back to reading '1984' and leave us alone.

I'm pretty sure that Darwin's theory doesn't rule out the possibility of the Creation.

advent, that is true, but it does say that men evolved from an ape ancestor and by that, suggests that man was not created in the image of God. Which certainly pits it against strict dogma, such as genesis.

Too Poor To Be Eccentric
http://www.adamdorman.com

I think you need to do some more research on Darwin and his actual theory Giraffe.

Why are people still born with tails?
_____________
Got Boost?

I think this is the record for most comments on a poll.

Custo Staff - Submissions
FrostedFlames Designs™

I believe that God created evolution.

and leave it at that.

-Aphaits-

Why is that hash?

Too Poor To Be Eccentric
http://www.adamdorman.com

Maybe God was an ape back then...
In fact yes he/she/it was God and God was an Ape, know he is a Human, or whatever our image is, thats the whole point of the "Image" thing isnt it, so we are never alone?

fractal.design

spammage:

God is purely a name for the "Mystery" that surrounds us. All we can do is love people and hope people love us.
That is all that is important :)

So all you haters get the Fuck Out !

fractal.design

Love people.

Pardon me, sir, but I laugh in your face. People are last things on the planet that deserve any form of love.

"People are last things on the planet that deserve any form of love"

this is true which is why people need more of it i have a duality theory likely under a different name else where but the human exists yet can you see his thoughts?

It's time for a new poll

*are the last

Don't know how I missed that one.

this is true which is why people need more of it i have a duality theory likely under a different name else where but the human exists yet can you see his thoughts?

Your incoherence reminds me of a certain someone who also has "theories".

You can never win an argument with a creationist... anything worth arguing is simply answered "the devine being created it thus so".

Let's forget about it and move on and upwards with science.

---fro

heh. that's funny. lots of creationists would say the same thing: "you can never win an argument with an evolutionist... anything worth arguing is simply answered 'that can't be true; it hasn't been proven by the scientific method.'"

the fundamental difference here is that evolutionists interpret evidence in order to support their side, and that most creationists, most of whom interpret the bible literally, believe that evidence for evolution can be interpreted in differently. arguing will get you nowhere because either side has its bias of belief.

i think i've recently decided not to argue about this anymore, ever, because it's totally useless and only provides people with another stupid reason to be prideful and arrogant and hate other groups of people. bleh.

but, yes, let's have a new poll, shall we?

Yes, lets.

-I am not unemployed, I'm an independent IT consultant.

creationist.
even if im wrong, and we just all die and cease to exist, ive still had a better and happier life.
________________________
http://www.mytechstudio.com

so... next poll?

_________
Kristhian || '05

be patient

______________________
your mom has a signature.

ViperGliph that is so wrong and arrogant.

Too Poor To Be Eccentric
http://www.adamdorman.com

yes I agree: New Poll and Viper you are the winner! can I join and be a winner too?

ps: Every human being deserves love, idiot! even murderers and fascists! everyone! think it!

fractal.design

Where is the "Both" option.

That's the real choice.

sweet, what did i win?

________________________
http://www.mytechstudio.com