Should personal attacks on the site be moderated?

of course they should, but there's a difference between moderating a personal attack, and moderating tab's comment for saying that the admins should take a little more into consideration before they rank. even dios seconded this.

let's not try to turn this into some black/white you're right/custo's wrong thing. because it isn't, and there's no reason in pretending there is.

so can we just let it rest? it's only going to further escalate.

We should respect each other in the "community"... but since thats seems hard, I believe personal attackts must be moderated...

kevin

maybe we need polls that are worth while

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http://static-industries.com/
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I voted yes. Any attack on a person should be moderated.

~angel

VictorC is a stupid moron who likes chasing flaming chicken with a butterfly net.

no, your a stupid moron

Enceladus

no Enceladus smells like butts

Yes but

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/0
0b9a680/463c5922

I think we (especially the admins) should learn the difference between an attack and a critique.

Attack: I FUCKING HATE YOUR SCREENSHOT BECAUSE ITS UGLIER THAN YOUR MOM!! LOLZOMG!1!

Critique: I dont really like your SS thats much because the colors dont blend well, and I've been seeing alot of that sort of style latley.

Enceladus

I agree with Enceladus... some members take critiques as personal attacks

kevin

Of course they should be moderated what the hell, why is there even a poll on this? If their not, then it degenerates into a flame war.

It's a loaded question in the first place.

Some of you have no idea what all this drama is about so let me provide a brief commentary on how this all started.


This issue stems from individuals thinking it is ok to disrespect others because they are unknown, ask too many "dumb questions" or not of the status quo. Time and time again personal attacks and sarcastic, aggressive comments are splattered across submissions & forum threads on this site.

Yesterday a user left a comment stating that they felt as though a screenshot submitted by a nuance group member was a ripped work, immediately following his comment, numerous personal attacks full of crude & distasteful language were made against that member. Since I stated before that personal attacks would be removed I took it upon myself to delete them.

To be fair and keep the peace, I also removed the initial comment from the user which claimed that the item was a rip as this was also responsible for sparking the attacks. Another admin removed remarks made by members which also criticized the site's admins for in thier opinion giving it a low rank. This is never an issue if the person who submits the item is an unknown or not in the status quo.

These actions did not sit well with a beligerent group of individuals who immediately began personal attacks upon me for doing my site duties. I removed those personal attacks as well as contacted each individual to let them know that what they were doing is against the rules.

The comments progressed at which point I had no choice but to silence one of those individuals. "CAPITALIZEX" has since come forth and apologized for his behaviour and in good faith his account will soon be unsilenced as he will now agree to comply with the policy against personal attacks.

There are many types of members here @ customize.org, but the 2 most distinct are members who have been here for a long time or who may be part of a clique that has been here a long time and feel it is a personal country club where they feel it is thier right to do and say whatever they want, if someone opposes them then that person immediately faces a backlash from the whole clique.

The other group of members are either new or long time visitors who browse the site to find items to customize thier desktops but dont like the behaviour they see in the submission comments or in the forum threads so after a while of constantly seeing this or being belittled for asking simple non aggressive questions they leave thinking the site is full of aggressive, mean spirited individuals and that the site administration condones the behavior.

This is not the case and the admins are united in prohibiting future situations like this. All we want is a site where everyone, even those who are not as well known to be respected and treated with dignity.

customize.org staff
member relations - accounts

I don't think it should be moderated. Deciding what counts as a "personal attack" is extremely subjective. What I say is a personal attack, may be not even close for someone else. Because there are so many exceptions to the rule, there will always be debates about what level of moderation is appropriate for another level of attack, and who is guilty and who isn't. Because there is no black and white way to do it, it isn't really fair to the community to pick one person, like Max, who has a conservative side of view, to objectively decide. And to be frankly honest, if there is no way to moderate the site in a fair way, then there isn't really any point in doing it, because it just causes more tension and uproars. I've been coming to this site for 3 years, and most of the threads I've seen locked, or posts deleted aren't really THAT bad. I'm all for respecting people, but this is the internet! If you are in a situation where everyone is anonymous, shit is going to happen...it just is. These problems are not individual to customize.org itself. Thats the nature of the game, and you'll just have to accept that. There is no possible way of making people accountable for what they say, other than deleting their account, but as many past exhiles here have shown, its simple to create a new one and keep posting. People are always going to say things that are more polarized opinions than they would ever dream of saying to someone's face when they are hiding behind a computer. Thats just the way it is...I suggest we get over it.

and another thing, a lot of users here greatly respect the harsh, honest criticism they get here for their work. I defintly agree with Max that we should be easier on new members...but the flipside of that, is that because we don't just accept anyone, the quality of work on the site is much superior to that of others.

I believe that direct personal attacks - not critiques - should be moderated. However, instead of having the comments mysteriously disappear after a flame war starts (leaving the rest of us in confusion), it would be better if the original comment were left in the post, along with a moderator's note outlining any violations made and punitive action taken. This would provide examples of what not to do, as well as show what happens when a certain type of comment is made.

If the comment is deleted completely, those of us who did not see it instead are met with a seemingly random flame war. It is better to leave the examples as they were posted, with a note from a moderator (any excessive obscene/offensive language should, of course, be "bleeped" out).

___________________
Scourge of the Muffins

Meh. next time something like this happens (you deleting a valid crit on someone on the staff doing a CRAPPY job) I'll just go straight to lamp and do my very absolute best to have yoor admin privs stripped.

Have a nice day.


advice: cool. your. jets.




formerly known as www.gypsyspacemuffin.com

Intimidation at its worst.

Look who went and grew a set of balls.

http://www.gypsyspacemuffin.com/junk/327
9.htm

other sites ban rippers.

custo lets them be admins and rank other people's work.

Lets all be civil please. If you have any questionable comments to make please keep them private. Send a site PM instead. Thank you


customize.org staff
member relations - accounts

Oh man, why you all be raining on my country club?

Seriously, theres a reason issues with Max keep bubbling to the surface, and it's not because everyone here is a spoiled brat, its because the man is a lunatic who can't see the different between a criticism and a troll, and does understand what the word tact is.

People who do not have a firm grasp on reality do not need positions of power.

His cronies like Wynton and Spr33 try to add a sense of credibility to him by telling the rest of you (us?) that we're overreacted, when it's simply not true.

Garbage like this is the reason myself and a lot of, may I say, influential contributers have left this site or stopped submitting here?

Also, why every single rating admin, besides "the man" himself, quit in the span of a day? Not because they simply got tired of it.

"Meh. next time something like this happens (you deleting a valid crit on someone on the staff doing a CRAPPY job) I'll just go straight to lamp and do my very absolute best to have yoor admin privs stripped."

c72 is right.

I have been visiting Custo for long time, and I usually dont see conflict like this. I feel that it is now my time to get involved. Max has abused his admin power on more than one occasion. He seems to me, to be very unpopular. I also think that he is unfit as an admin, and is not good for the community. Nearly all conflict on Custo, as far as I can tell, is a result of sombody and Max.

If the community does not appreciate the admin AND if the community is supposed to be run by the community (which I believe that it should be), then the admin should be removed and replaced.

Enceladus

what should i get to eat?

_____________________
#nuance ' capx

*let me clarify myself*

Max does a great job ranking people's work, and featuring stuff, but as for moderating comments and the forums, he does an awful job. He causes conflict, whether or not intended.

Enceladus

If i'm unpopular with the ones who seek to do harm to the community by turning it into thier private country club of horrors then so be it. I'll be your bad guy to make sure the regular, good people of customize and the new comers are treated fairly.

Thank you

And by all means contact Lamp so that he too can see how much of a bad person I am. Oh mean ol max trying to take our fun away.

customize.org staff
member relations - accounts

HAY GUYZ, LETS HARM THE COMMUNITY!

All those times we thought we were trying to help by providing objective criticism (non-sugar coated), and public discourse, we were really just harming the community!!

I guess when you hurt someones feelings you're harming the community.

"Max does a great job ranking people's work, and featuring stuff" [br]
wow I dunno about that but if you say so.[br][br]
I have to agree w/ the general populus in that max does make some very silly moderating calls especially when "critiquing" any of his work. I know that as a former DM admin max's "moderating" wouldn't have been tolerated and he'd be dumped as an admin.
[br][br]
Now as for this whole country club deal, can someone clue me into when this was created becuase I certaily wasn't given any notice damnit.
Stay Frosty!

I think that this whole thing is crap and that this poll should be deleted. As for Max not being allowed to be an admin anymore that's not really up to the people who he pisses off, otherwise no one would ever be in power. It's up to the other admin's and the webmaster as to whether or not she should be bucked.

So shut and lets make our computers look pretty; quit actin' like pre-teen girls.

"Don't kill yourself, kill other people."

^ who are you?

_____________________
#nuance ' capx

JUST PLAYINNNN BOOO, Come give me a kiss!

_____________________
#nuance ' capx

There are many types of members here @ customize.org, but the 2 most distinct are members who have been here for a long time or who may be part of a clique that has been here a long time and feel it is a personal country club where they feel it is thier right to do and say whatever they want, if someone opposes them then that person immediately faces a backlash from the whole clique.

It's cute how you spin the overwhelming majority of the site's long-time users as some kind of "cliquie".

And by "cute", I mean really uncool.

: I paid $14 for a T-shirt and all I got was this stupid T-shirt :

Holy crap, I'm in Laguna Beach. Get me the hell out of here...

"Don't kill yourself, kill other people."

"...members who have been here for a long time or who may be part of a clique that has been here a long time and feel it is a personal country club where they feel it is thier right to do and say whatever they want, if someone opposes them then that person immediately faces a backlash from the whole clique."

Max: I feel like if you belong to this type of member.

kevin

ive really got to say that i joined this site maybe 5 months ago. in that 5 months ive seen this site decay. the quality of work has gone down and flame wars pop up daily usually about insignifigant things and by people who dont know how to argue. now i am by no means saying "why cant we all just get along". however, i am saying that general respect for people has just decreased overall. granted this was never really fond of newbies, but it was kept at a reasonable level. so that if it was an attack it could at least be confused with a sort of right of passage that every newbie goes through once in a while. i think that this lack of respect is what is driving the work down. i think that people are almost afraid to ask for help on things thinking that no one will help them and all theyll get is a lot a angry people yelling RTFM, and so they just dont learn. sometimes we get people posting 5 or 6 things in a row that maybe took them 30 mins each to do. no offense to deviant art, but i really dont want our site to turn into that. they have some very good stuff, but they are inindated with a lot of crap too.

another thing that has happened in those 5 months is that there has been a change in the admins who rank things. these new admins rank things lower. it used to be that an 80 was something just ok. now an 80 is something to look at. also these new admins are just that, new. cut them come slack. dont just blatently and disrepectfully attack them. they are admins for a reason, and it might do you better to outline your points to them in a polite manner rather than getting yourself silenced.

this used to be a really good site people. id like to see it get back there.

80 isn't a low score. It should be something to look at. Just because user comments always rate 99 or 100, doesn't mean the admins will / do. They rate realistically. People need to stop complaining about getting a score that is 'only' 60-80.

common sense rules.

Indeed, we've been through this a bazillion times. I ripped a skin a few years ago. I'm pretty sure everyone knows. If not, well, I'm sure they do now. If anyone has a problem with it, send me a PM.

PS - Thanks for the link ugly wilderness man, saves me explination time.

Anyone notice how this admin, Wynton, who should be making an example by following site policy, which this whole thread is supposedly about, just decided to attack me personally, which this thread is also about?

Ripping, personal attacks. Tsk tsk. Why, I don't think you know how to follow the rules here. Anyone else would be banned, and rightfully so. I think your presence here may harm the community.

Max, will you please delete this comment after you delete Wynton's?

Thank you.

owned

Poppycock. 'Ugly wilderness man' is nothing more than a term of endearment (such as old fart, old geezer, old dude, etc.)

I actually love you and all the disrupted/nuance people who worship you.

...disrupted/nuance people...

I take that personally.

How about the other personal attacks in this this poll by your friends? Wont your disrupted/nuance affils be upset with the fact that thier posts would get moderated as well for the new attacks against me?

Just like you were upset with the fact that an admin removed your critique on a featured item? (wasn't me by the way even though you swear up and down I did it..) If I would have done it then I have no problems letting you know that.

I'm no coward and I don't fear another human being living on this planet. BTW, I remember you agreeing with me and frostedflames in an admin forum thread to remove/silence individuals who did the same thing you did, you even threatened me!

Why a chance in your stance on this? Is it because it's me holding my ground or are you upset that someone would dare remove a comment made by you?

Wynton is an admin and I dont dont police other admins thats for Mark to do you know that being a former admin yourself, so at this point.. Nothing in this thread gets removed until lamp speaks. You guys seem to be under the impression that 1. I'm operating alone on this & 2. that Lamp has no idea of what is going on, so I will wait. In the mean time, Im open so martyr me.


customize.org staff
member relations - accounts

Bubbles make me sneeze.